Hello all!
We are playing Abomination Vaults with free archetype, and I have made an orc Fighter that will act as the primary defender/tank: Level 2, just started but I love future planning and theory crafting. We are playing with free archetype, and I was pretty set on playing a gish before I decided to act as the front line guard, so I chose Axe/Shield style with Magus as my archetype, with the plan of getting Spellstrike and Dimensional Assault(Hybrid Study). Spellcasting was a big requirement for me, but with it being wavecasting, and the archetype version at that, it's pretty sub-par... but I am happy with it. Any magic is better than no magic IMO.
Party of 6, with a Monk(wrestler), Cleric(champion), Wizard(familiar master), Rogue(hunter), and Thaumaturge(Marshal).
With that being said, I was planning on taking Bastion as my second archetype to double down on using the shield, but the Psychic just keeps calling my attention. Better casting than the Magus (in terms of spells slots and getting up to 8th level spells) and it quickly gets me up to 3 focus points (vs just 1 from Magus). The Tangible Dream was my first choice with Imaginary Weapon pushing broken paired with Spellstrike, and the Amped Shield. The Oscillating Wave has been the new frontrunner with the Amped Produce Flame, and my character's affection of Nethys paired with the Oscillating Wave dichotomy. Dropping a Spellstrike with massive fire dmg and AOE splash makes me smile... in theory.
I know I can only Spellstrike once per encounter, so my question is: Is grabbing Psychic really worth it over Bastion? It would enhance my Spellstrike significantly and grant me a ton more spell slots, at the cost of shield feats from Bastion such as Shield Warden, Shielded Stride, etc... I can only get so many with my Fighter feats. I would also have to sacrifice Fighter options such as Sudden Charge for Reflexive Shield (Bastion would give that for free). Am I over thinking it with a desire to do more damage, or is Gouging Claw (or limited Shocking Grasp) sufficient? Will I run out of focus points so fast (can only refocus for 1) to make having 3, and therefore the Amped Cantrips, moot? Are shield related feats as required for the playstyle as I feel they are?
I know it comes down to "What do I want to do: more damage and magic, or more shield utility and defense." But I am asking any of you with experience to enlighten me on what I can expect to see or feel with the build. So far I have learned that Aggressive Block is waaaay better than it looks on paper. Thankfully retraining is a thing so I can find my own niche, but I would like to tap the infinite knowledge of the Paizo wellspring if I may.
Thank you in advance!
you might want to go Sparkling Targe if you want to use that shield, Dimensional Assault is for one handed weapons nothing in off hand
As far as I understand it, with Magus being an archetype I do not get to pick a Hybrid Study. The Hybrid Study Spell feat allows me to "Gain the conflux spell from a hybrid study of your choice." Dimensional Assault looks to have no requirements, along with Shielding Strike, and is 1 action verbal so it should be viable. Shielding Strike seems a bit meh without the recharge working. I figured being a shield fighter with the ability to teleport strike for 1 action was too good to pass up, especially with the axe crit spec. But Shielding Strike is a flat action economy booster for 1 round, so I appreciate the advice. It may be a better pick with DA only having a 10 ft range.
Quote: I know I can only Spellstrike once per encounter, so my question is: Is grabbing Psychic really worth it over Bastion? It would enhance my Spellstrike significantly and grant me a ton more spell slots, at the cost of shield feats from Bastion such as Shield Warden, Shielded Stride, etc... I can only get so many with my Fighter feats. I would also have to sacrifice Fighter options such as Sudden Charge for Reflexive Shield (Bastion would give that for free). Am I over thinking it with a desire to do more damage, or is Gouging Claw (or limited Shocking Grasp) sufficient? Will I run out of focus points so fast (can only refocus for 1) to make having 3, and therefore the Amped Cantrips, moot? Are shield related feats as required for the playstyle as I feel they are? This looks like the core of the question.
The reality is that either option is good. So you are picking between two good choices - which can be really hard. Ultimately though, I think you would be best served with going with the choice that you will have the most fun with rather than the one that is mechanically better.
For the specific questions:
Simply having Shield Block is often sufficient. Though it does eat into your actions for the round. Reactive Shield will help with that - though I would point out that if you use Reactive Shield to bring your shield up, then you have used your reaction. You can't also use Shield Block until you have the Quick Shield Block feat that gives you a second reaction to use. People often forget that in their analysis.
On the other path, you are absolutely right that having 3 focus points is not very useful if you can still only refocus 1 of them at a time. Basically it means that once or twice per day you can throw out more focus spells than one per fight. Which is still good. But not great. So yes, for your decision analysis, don't put much weight on having more focus points. More focus spells means more options of which one to cast. More spell slots is fantastic. More focus points is meh.
yeah didn't see that the Magus Dedication dosen't lock the conflux spells behind a Hybrid study.
I think you're goign to want to see how the shield plays before you sink an archetype into it, and see how your action economy looks, too. How many actions a turn can you usually spend on attacking? How often are you using your reaction on shield blocking? How often are you having issues with your shield running out of durability? Are you generally close enough to the Marshal to take advantage of their aura? Things like that can have a major impact on which archetype is going to work well for you, and they can be very dependent on things like your natural playstyle, the GM's playstyle, and that of your fellow players.
Knowing your statline is also valuable. If you have an investment in int and/or charisma in particular, that's going to have an effect on which classes you can qualify for, and which ones are worth it.
Thank you very much for the input so far. It is greatly appreciated. I have a terrible problem with decision paralysis and I come from 5e so I have a habit to try to optimize. I am trying to move away from that.
My stats are: Str 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Dex 10, Cha 10. My primary skill will be crafting.
So far my typical round is raise shield, stride, strike. If I'm lucky enough to start next to an enemy, raise strike strike. My reaction has been pretty much exclusively shield block with aggressive block. I hear you with your concern about shield durability, and investing too much in my shield only to have it break is a worry. Sturdy Shield can't come soon enough. In theory quick repair will help with that, but combat is so short it won't be practical until I hit legendary in crafting.
I am leaning towards Bastion, as I feel like that will allow me to get some Fighter shield feats with my archetype feats, allowing me to be a more fleshed out fighter with my core feats. Sprinkle in a little (very little sadly) bit of casting, Spellstrike for the occasional nova, and a teleport strike. And having three Focus points when I know they will run out since I can't refocus enough doesn't sit well with me.
It's just so tempting to expand my spellcasting pool by 2X, and increase my Spellstrike nova potential, by grabbing Psychic.
A big part of my plan to fix my action economy is Paragon's Guard, but that doesn't come until level 12.
I would not suggest Bastion. Fighters are usually doing what they can to direct their feats *away* from Fighter. In the long run, you'll have lots... and in general, feats that come out of classes show up earlier/cheaper than the equivalent feats in archetypes, which means that that kind of reaching back in often isn't great.
So you've got your reactions mostly spoken for, and you aren't having any problem getting the enemy to focus on you. You've tanked charisma and dex. That does narrow the options a fair bit.
Also, your FA 2, 4, and 6 are spoken for. The next feat you could spend would be your 8... but I'd encourage you to consider *not* to spend that on opening up a new archetype. You have your level 9 ancestry feat, and that can also be used to open archetypes. Take a familiar or cantrip expansion or something.
If we were going for raw power, and your GM were willing to let you shuffle your stats slightly, I'd be suggesting that you consider pushing the 12 Wisdom over to Dex, taking Multitalented into Monk at 9 (giving you a d6 weapon that leaves your hand open, so that you can get in on some of those athletics maneuvers) and then taking Flurry of Blows at 10 (letting you get two attacks per round rather than one). You can then use your level 12 FA to get either Gorilla or Stumbling Stance to upgrade that damage to a D8.
...but, honestly, I think you're better off following the fun, and it sounds like having a bit more caster in your life would add to the fun for you. Given that, psychic is a pretty solid pick.
Just... don't try to convince yourself that your spells are there for damage-dealing outside of spellstrike. If you're making a spell attack vs AC, or they're saving against the effects, it's *always* going to be a disappointment.
Depending on how tied you are to magic thematically, mechanically you may want to look at Inventor. It grants you explicitly non-magical ways to achieve many of the effects you're looking to create. You could make your shield or armor into your innovation when you choose the dedication at 2. From there you have a few options.
If you choose armor, you could grab Explosive Leap at 4 with Basic Innovation which would replicate Dimensional Assault, allowing you to leap around combat once per fight. You could give your armor the Otherworldly Protection or Muscular Exoskeleton modifications at 8 depending on how you were feeling or grab another Inventor feat like Megaton Strike, Gadget Specialist, or Searing Restoration.
If you chose weapon, Haphazard Repair would let you quickly repair your shield if you chose to make that your weapon innovation, admittedly only with a free hand though. Alternatively grab the same Explosive Leap as above. At 8 you could give it Entangling Form by grabbing Basic Modification, giving your shield the grapple and trip traits which pairs nicely with your use of aggressive block and allowing you to do all three main maneuvers with your shield.
Brilliant Crafter at level 6 would grant you expert crafting and then master when you hit 7, allowing you to diversify your skills. If you went with the armor innovation, that Muscular Exoskeleton at 8 would be granting you a +2 circumstance to all your shoves with your shield.
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