A problem with simplified ancestries


Rules Discussion

Dark Archive

Relevant rules blurb for context:

Archives of Nethys wrote:
When choosing an ancestry for a simplified ancestry character, you gain the ancestry’s normal abilities at 1st level, choose a heritage, and gain the appropriate lore feat (Dwarven Lore for dwarves, for example) as your ancestry feat. Simplified ancestry characters never gain ancestry feats beyond that first lore feat. If you want to keep the power level of your game consistent, you can replace the ancestry feats gained at higher levels with general feats.

The problem lies in the fact that not every race has a _____ Lore feat. Most of these are rare races, so it's not too big of an issue: Fleshwarp, Poppet, Skeleton, Sprite. There may be others that I overlooked.

The big HOWEVER, though, is that there is no Human Lore feat. Humans are one of the big core races and one of the most common races in the game.
I understand that extreme versatility and societal/geographic/cultural flexibility are cornerstones of the Golarian human's design, so it makes sense that there isn't a "Human Lore" feat, since humans are so varied (arguably should be true of a lot of the more widespread races, but that's a topic for another channel).
But it is something of a failing for the alternative rules system.

For those wondering: this problem is partially, though not wholly, ameliorated by versatile heritages. Only Beastkin and Ganzi VHs don't have an associated Lore skill feat.

Natural Skill seems like a nice replacement compromise. You get trained proficiency in any two skills you like at the trade-off of not getting a lore skill.


Or you could just say that human characters get (Nation/Country) Lore for wherever they grew up.

Grand Lodge

The Lore feats grant more than just a Lore skill, though.


I mean, does it say, for the simplified ancestry, that they get trained in that Lore skill, or is it treated like Additional Lore - (race) Lore? I realize it says "gain the appropriate Lore feat", but technically, there is no "Dwarven Lore" feat by that specific name. It's a subcategory of the Lore skill, sure.

Silver Crusade

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Var Sardos wrote:
technically, there is no "Dwarven Lore" feat by that specific name.

There's not?


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Var Sardos wrote:
technically, there is no "Dwarven Lore" feat by that specific name.
There's not?

Derp.

I was looking here.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?Traits=144&Skill=Lore

Dark Archive

Yeah, the solid majority of races have "Ancestry" Lore as a feat. Even a bunch of versatile heritages have something quite similar; Celestial Lore as opposed to Aasimar lore, but that's easy enough to figure out imo.

And ALMOST every single one of them grants trained in two predetermined skills as well as training in Lore (Ancestry).
Fetchling grants Lore (Shadow Plane) which is a slightly broader lore skill than Lore (Fetchling) probably would be.
Also the Shisk Lore feat grants trained proficiency in 3 lore skills of your choice plus Lore (Shisk), instead of the usual 2 predetermined skills and Lore (Ancestry).

ALSO also, in my haste earlier I appear to have missed that Gnomes don't have a Gnome Lore feat, either, and there's not a particularly great replacement IMO.
Gnome Obsession is probably the closest, granting scaling proficiency in a Lore skill of your choice, but it's an even larger departure from the formula than Human's Natural Skill.

Dark Archive

Adding Kashrishi to the list of ancestries without a _____ Lore feat. And they REALLY don't have a viable alternative: none of their level 1 ancestry feats grant training in any skills.


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The list of Lore feats is not restrictive. Human Lore should exist in the right context. It is just not a printed option.

Dark Archive

Gortle wrote:
The list of Lore feats is not restrictive. Human Lore should exist in the right context. It is just not a printed option.

The list of lore SKILLS is not an exhaustive list.

But the simplified ancestries optional system has all players select their ancestry's Lore FEAT at first level instead of selecting an ancestry feat.
These Lore Feats generally grant trained proficiency in two skills plus a Lore skill related to that ancestry.

But not every ancestry has a level 1 ancestry feat that fits this template or naming scheme.

Edit: big fan of your guides, btw <3

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