Can you make a spell effect smaller area at higher level?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I am level 17 sorcerer and I have Wall of Force spell.
In description of the spell it says: Effect wall whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level. So I can create 170 suare ft. of continuous wall. Can I willingly make it smaller? Because I can't find any rules about that. If I don't need 170 ft., can I make it 60 square ft.?
Also what if there is a creature in the way? Can wall of force go over that square and push the creature to the closest available square? Or how does that work?


I would rule yes, you can use less than the maximum allowed area when using Wall of Force. I don't know of any official rule for this; I think it makes sense for it to work that way.

There are other spells that would work this way. Teleport and Plane Shift have a maximum number of targets, but I don't think you are obligated to use all the slots. Spells with Mass in their name (such as Mass Bull's Strength) can affect multiple targets, but I don't think you are obligated to affect the maximum number of targets.

I'm not sure if you can shrink the blast radius of a fireball though. I think you have to be careful where you strike with a fireball, or you'll cook your friends.


What's the problem? "up to" certainly allows you to use less than the max!


OmniMage wrote:

I would rule yes, you can use less than the maximum allowed area when using Wall of Force. I don't know of any official rule for this; I think it makes sense for it to work that way.

There are other spells that would work this way. Teleport and Plane Shift have a maximum number of targets, but I don't think you are obligated to use all the slots. Spells with Mass in their name (such as Mass Bull's Strength) can affect multiple targets, but I don't think you are obligated to affect the maximum number of targets.

I'm not sure if you can shrink the blast radius of a fireball though. I think you have to be careful where you strike with a fireball, or you'll cook your friends.

Yeah our GM isn't harsh on the rules and if something makes sense and it is not an exploit of a mechanic then it is usually allowable. But recently a rules lawyer type of player joined and unless it is clearly states that you do that he is going to enjoy being annoying. So I kinda want to have an answer when eventually this person asks "how come I can do that" ugh...

Loren Pechtel wrote:
What's the problem? "up to" certainly allows you to use less than the max!

Yeah that makes sense. I guess I didn't register that in my head. Thanks.


Sounds like this new player is a problem.

It's one thing to offer help in understanding the rules, but it's the GM's role to be the arbiter. In this case, pointing them to the spell and where it says "up to one 10ft square/level" there isn't really much for a rules lawyer to say.

The GM can read it and decide if "up to" means required to.

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