Page 240: Skill Attempts
"A brief description of the skill is followed by a list of actions you can use if you’re untrained in that skill, and then the ***actions you can perform if you are trained*** in that skill"
So, if, for example, I was Untrained in Acrobatics, I simply cannot even attempt to walk across a narrow beam?
That doesn't seem right; I think I should have an outside chance of succeeding, however remote.
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I think you're mixing the Trained and Untrained sections since your example mentions the Balance Action which is an Untrained Action that anyone can attempt.
An example of an Acrobatics Action that is Trained Only would instead be Maneuver in Flight and Squeeze.
EDIT: Okay I see what you're talking about with regard to the example tasks and the training level, but bear in mind, those are just suggestions to help GMs determine how hard X or Y should be but it doesn't stop you from using the Action to try that task.
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I think the idea is, you can try to walk across a narrow beam without being trained in acrobatics, but you’re probably going to fall off of it.
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EDIT: Okay I see what you're talking about with regard to the example tasks and the training level, but bear in mind, those are just suggestions to help GMs determine how hard X or Y should be but it doesn't stop you from using the Action to try that task.
Yes. There are two things in play here.
One is the character's proficiency in the skill. Some actions can be used untrained, others require at least a proficiency of trained.
Some challenges can also gate attempts based on even higher proficiency. Hazards do that quite a bit - requiring expert proficiency or higher in order to attempt to disable them.
The other part is the DC value. That is set by the GM/challenge writer. There are guidelines for how to set an appropriate DC based either on the minimum proficiency level of a character that is likely to attempt it, or by the level of the task/challenge itself.
As long as you meet the proficiency requirements, then you can attempt the action. For the standard actions that means that you can balance across a narrow beam even if you are untrained. You might run into problems if the DC is too high for you to reach though. Also if you encounter a hazard that involves balancing on a swingarm in order to reach the control panel and the hazard lists expert proficiency for the attempt, then you couldn't make the attempt with only trained proficiency.
Sorry, I'm confused. I have Untrained +0 in Acrobatics, can I attempt to walk across a narrow beam?
Ok, got it now. There are Untrained and Trained criteria. Thanks all.
Looking at the Trained actions, they do seem to be the kinds of skilled actions you could not attempt without some formal training. Mostly. There are grey areas, like, Survival (Cover Tracks). But all in all, it's logical.
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Ok, got it now. There are Untrained and Trained criteria. Thanks all.
Looking at the Trained actions, they do seem to be the kinds of skilled actions you could not attempt without some formal training. Mostly. There are grey areas, like, Survival (Cover Tracks). But all in all, it's logical.
For things like Cover Tracks, I think anyone can attempt it. But if you're Untrained, it actually has zero effect in game terms.
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Yeah, when for example lists climb tasks:
Sample Climb Tasks
Untrained ladder, steep slope, low-branched tree
Trained rigging, rope, typical tree
Expert wall with small handholds and footholds
Master ceiling with handholds and footholds, rock wall
Legendary smooth surface
What that means is that for example a wall with small handholds is DC 20 (the expert DC) and would be doable but a bit challenging for someone who's just become an an expert at the earliest opportunity.
With numbers: expert DC is 20. Typically you take your first Expert skill at level 3, on something you have a strong ability bonus on (+4) so that would give you a total bonus of (level 3 +4 for expert) (+4 ability) = +11, so to meet DC 20 you need to roll a 9. Those are okay odds but definitely not guaranteed success yet.
For the untrained level 1 character looking at that task though, they'd just be rolling their strength bonus, which might be a +2, so they need an 18.
By level 7 when you might become a master, the expert DC looks kinda easy because you're sitting on a +18 bonus, maybe +1 more with an item bonus. The DC 30 for master difficulty tasks is kinda challenging though.
So these names for difficulty tiers are basically trying to put a more meaningful name on some numerical breakpoints to help give you an impression on "how hard is DC 20 really?"
Got it. Thanks all, much appreciated!