Amp Heightened without Amp


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dark Archive 13 wrote:
Amp Heightened: Many amps have heightened entries similar to spells. Add the amp’s heightened effects when you cast the cantrip at that level or higher. These are in addition to any heightened effects of the cantrip, though some adjust the cantrip’s normal heightened entry (typically in the case of damage increases).

The Amp Heightened benefits don't seem to indicate that you must activate the Amp to get their benefits, merely heighten the spell to the appropriate level.

Am I reading that right?


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No you are not. That is the amp's heightened entry. It does not apply to the cantrip unless the amp does.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GM OfAnything wrote:
No you are not. That is the amp's heightened entry. It does not apply to the cantrip unless the amp does.

Is there any verbiage in the rules that more clearly indicates as such?


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Does there need to be?

If you are only casting the cantrip without any Amp, are you really casting the Amp? And if you are not casting the Amp, why would you think that you would get the Amp's heightened effect?


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I mean it's right in the name. Amp heighten. By definition it's not relevant if you aren't using the amp. If that's not clear enough I don't know what would be.


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Ravingdork wrote:
GM OfAnything wrote:
No you are not. That is the amp's heightened entry. It does not apply to the cantrip unless the amp does.
Is there any verbiage in the rules that more clearly indicates as such?

Yes.

Dark Archive 13 wrote:
Amp Heightened: Many amps have heightened entries similar to spells.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
GM OfAnything wrote:
No you are not. That is the amp's heightened entry. It does not apply to the cantrip unless the amp does.
Is there any verbiage in the rules that more clearly indicates as such?

The Amp entry is (sometimes) attached to the cantrip but is a separate entry.

Even if the amp effect is heightened by the cantrip's level, you are adding this effect to the amp, not directly to the cantrip . As such, it has no actual effect unless you actually activate the amp.

You could argue that the amp's heightened text doesn't say what you are adding the heightened effect to, and it just says to add it. But that is a disingenuous reading of the Amp Heighten and amp rules.


Amp doesn't take a capital A in the description (unless it's the first word of the sentence) so it doesn't speak about the actual game term but about amps in general.
As such, I don't see why it wouldn't be applied to the cantrip, especially if your character decides to call it Electric Amp, Ampance or Ray of Amp.

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