I think you have it pretty well. Some things to point out:
When setting DCs you can either use the NPC's saving throw modifiers converted to a DC (you are right, to calculate a DC you just add 10 to the modifier - that conversion is used constantly in the rules). Or you can use the DC by Level table and get the DC values directly from that (so DC 18 for level 3).
When creating an NPC's saving throw modifier, the table for that includes several ratings. The +12 for level 3 is a 'High' save rating. You could also decide that +9 or +6 would be more appropriate for that NPC and adjust the DC accordingly (to DC 19 or 16 respectively).
And like the Influence rules say, you can then adjust these DCs as needed.
I'll try and come up with a more concrete example a bit later today.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The GMG is not particularly easy to understand when it comes to setting good DCs.
I would advise being careful not to set them too high. Get a sense for what your players' skill bonuses are like. If you set a DC at 22 for a level 3 PC to beat, they're going to fail a LOT. Because the best bonus they could have would be a +12 (+4 ability, +7 expert, +1 item), but that's for someone who's absolutely specialized in it. This absolute specialist will make it on a 10 so 55% chance of success.
But also consider the next character who's only trained, doesn't have an item bonus (that's not that cheap) and has a 14 stat; they only have a +2 stat, +5 trained = +7. So they only succeed on rolling a 15+. On a 5 or lower, they lose an influence point from the critical failure. It's borderline whether they're better off not getting involved because they're as likely to help as to hinder.
That's not fun. That DC is too high. Compared to the normal level-based DC for going against a level 3 challenge, that would be only an 18, 4 lower. That's a much more reasonable number that the absolute expert has an easy time with, and the somewhat trained character stands a much better of success against than they have of critically failing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here is something I threw together. The hardest part for me is choosing which skills to use and justifying why they work.
If anyone in the group tries something not on the list, I usually improvise a DC based on something similar that is on the list already. Either that, or if the player can't justify why it would be relevant, I don't allow the skill to be used and the player has to pick something else to do instead (I don't make them lose their action for the round - that's a mean way to handle being creative).
==================================
Level 5 Influence encounter
PCs are trying to get hired on as caravan guards. They need to convince the caravan master and caravan manager to hire them.
Rounds: 3 rounds. 10 minutes for each round.
Thresholds:
2: PCs are allowed to join the caravan, but will not be paid.
4: PCs are hired for minimal pay and will have to buy or bring their own food.
6: PCs are hired for minimal pay, but food is included.
8: PCs are hired for moderate pay, including meals.
Special:
The party must have earned at least one point from both of the people in order to be hired.
If the party only uses their combat abilities to get hired, they will lose 4 points because the owner and manager will feel that they are as much of a risk to the caravan as they are a benefit. "All you are is thugs or mercenaries. How do I know you haven't already been hired to infiltrate the caravan and join the attack from the inside?"
Michon Raval: Caravan master
A friendly Human male.
Discovery:
Lore(merchantile) DC 15
Society DC 18
Perception DC 20
Influence:
combat DC 22 (any display of combat ability that requires an attack roll)
Medicine DC 15 (only usable once) "We could always use someone to patch up scrapes and bruises on the road"
Diplomacy DC 25 "I've had too many people who are all talk and no action"
Survival DC 20 "If we get trapped somewhere, at least you will be able to fend for yourselves."
Resistances: Intimidation - Attempts to intimidate Michon fail and cause the DCs of future Influence checks to be adjusted by +1.
Yaela Aeran: Caravan manager
A highly organized Half-Elf male.
Discovery:
Diplomacy DC 18 "I like that you don't waste time trying to guess what we are looking for and just come right out and ask to know."
Perception DC 20
Society DC 20
Influence:
combat DC 22 (any display of combat ability that requires an attack roll)
Lore(scouting) DC 15 "We could use another scout"
Lore(warfare) DC 17 "So you could organize the rest caravan into defensive formations?"
Performance DC 22 "It is good to have some entertainment in the evening after the work is done."
Crafting DC 20 "People are generally in charge of their own maintenance, but having someone on hand if needed wouldn't hurt."
Diplomacy DC 24 (22 if any other Influence skill has been succeeded at previously) "I don't have time for nothing but words" "But you do have other skills though."
Weaknesses: If anyone suggests cooking for the caravan, and has trained proficiency in Crafting or appropriate Lore skill, DCs for Influence are adjusted by -2.
If you have access the Age of Ashes: Cult of Cinders has a practical usage of Influence subsystem. You can get some inspiration and some DC balance there.
The IP (influence points) there gives about +4 IP when players complete the most important challenge in the book, +2-3 IP when you improve the main NPCs attitudes to Helpful, +2 IP when some relevant job was done, -2 IP when takes many days to complete a job, -2 IP when do something considered irresponsible or unacceptable to the group you are working for.
So not only the DCs are important when using Influence in your games. Sometimes the players receives +1 IP just due participation in some events.
About the DCs mostly are normal DCs for the level with the normal difficulty changes (hard, very hard...) in the DC giving +1 or +2 IP per difficult level depending of the importance of the check.
In some multiple check tasks usually the book does many different CDs from Very Easy (normal DC -5) to very hard (normal DC +5) giving the IP for participation and improving it's gain when someone pass in the hardiest checks but not penalty when failure in them except when the players failure in the mostly easiest at the point to complete failure in the job when them looses IP points.
Offend a NPC usually also penalty the IP in -1 or -2 depending of the gravity offensive action. If is something completely unacceptable for the group that you trying to gain influence the players can 0 their influence or completely fail to keep trying and receiving the complete hostility from the group if they already have very low influence and cannot justify themself loosing any chance to try influence again except from a very noticeable action in benefit of the group when they maybe forgiven and start again.
I'm sorry if my explanation is too hard to understand but english isn't my primary language and I was trying to explain how the AP book was using the Influence subsystem without spoil it but trying to resume is:
- Use normal DC checks to give +1 or +2 IP
- Give +1 IP due the mere participation in tasks relevant to the group you are trying to influence
- In situations that needs multiple checks diminish the difficulties and also don't penalize the players for some failures except if you want for critical failures or for sequence failures. Also give some IP bonuses for critical success and multiple success and also improve the DC difficult progressively when want to give even more IPs.
- Complete tasks relevant to the group usually is more important and gives more IP than pass in the simple DCs checks
- Improve the main NPCs attitudes also may give some IPs, usually these can be improve impressing the with something personally relevant to them and the DCs are based in their levels.
I hope this may helpful to you.