This came up in play, but basically how do you calculate the distance between two tokens.
Assuming Y and Z are tokens and X are empty squares.
YXXXXXXZ
Would the distance between those two tokens be 35ft or 30ft ? If you assume you calculate from the middle of the squares then the distance is 40ft, but that also means that 30ft effect must be cast from 4 square away no 6?
I tend to think calculation of distance starts from the square in front of you for ranged effects so in this scenario, Z being exactly 30ft from edge to edge of square, I tend to assume that it is within 30ft?
I've looked through Nethys but can't seem to find an answer.
There is also the question of diagonal distance. Do you calculate the distance directly (using the Pythagorean theorem), or do you calculate the 'walking' distance the amount of movement it would take a character to walk it.
I think the area templates for spell effects use the walking distance in most cases. So that is what I would use for straight line distance too.
So if you walk in a straight line for 30 feet, you would end up 6 squares away from your starting position. So that would be where you could reach with a spell too.
But I have seen this get a bit muddier when dealing with VTTs. Because the one that I am most familiar with seems to use direct distance when measuring distances with the measurement tools. Maybe there is a setting for that.
So in my exemple:
YXXXXXXZ
6 squares of movement would be
YXXXXXXZ
------YZ Which means a 30 ft. move gets you in reach, but a 30ft. range spell does not reach?
Feels... kinda weird ?
I'm legit not sure where to draw the line here. Literally.
| 11 people marked this as a favorite. |
30 feet of walking gets you within 5ft reach. Or 25 feet of walking gets you within 10ft reach. It is outside of 30ft range. Because it's 35 ft. All of those match.
This came up in play, but basically how do you calculate the distance between two tokens.
Assuming Y and Z are tokens and X are empty squares.
YXXXXXXZ
Would the distance between those two tokens be 35ft or 30ft ? If you assume you calculate from the middle of the squares then the distance is 40ft, but that also means that 30ft effect must be cast from 4 square away no 6?
I tend to think calculation of distance starts from the square in front of you for ranged effects so in this scenario, Z being exactly 30ft from edge to edge of square, I tend to assume that it is within 30ft?
I've looked through Nethys but can't seem to find an answer.
There is a 30 foot gap between both targets, represented by each X. Y and Z, which take up their own spaces, are also an area of 5 feet. The total length that encompasses all 3 factors is 40 feet.
The distance between is not the same as the distance to the target, which would be 35 feet when determining if you can affect it from a range, since either end point (Y or Z) counts as 0 for this purpose.
**EDIT** Misread how many X's were in between the other two letters. Whoops.
Topologically speaking, the distance between two closed sets in a metric space is the length of the shortest path between them.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A spell with a range of 30ft can travel 30ft to hit a creature. So in the diagram YXXXXXXZ, the Z is out of range.
If Y has a speed of 30, Y could move 30ft and then hit Z. But that is because Y has 5ft reach (for a standard creature).
If that seems unmatched, then remember that a 30ft movement speed is not the default. Most PC ancestries and most monsters have a 25ft speed. So then the distance to travel for a melee strike or a 30ft spell is actually equal.
To be clear, what I am suggesting - using walking distance measurements - it is the space that you end in that marks the distance that you can reach with a ranged ability like a spell or ranged attack.
I think that matches with what HammerJack, Ascalaphus, and maybe Darksol have said too.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think "walking distance" is the best model to use for this yeah. Take any edge or corner of a square. Take a number of steps from there as if you were moving there until you reach your maximum range or radius. Then see which edges/corners you've reached. That's what's in range of your effect.
This works well both for effects that start from a square (such as a produce flame or an emanation) as well as for effects that start from an intersection (bursts, like fireball).
So in the YXXXXXXZ example, if you start counting at the edge of your square (the left |), and move 35ft, you end up at the right |:
Y|XXXXXXZ|
So to affect Z, you need a 35ft range effect.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is...
when...
emojis...
become super useful ^_^
⭕⬜⬜⚫
Black is 3 squares (15 feet) away from red.
Black could be affected by, say, burning hands.
⭕⬜⚫
Black is 2 squares (10 feet) away from red.
Black could be affected by, say, a weapon with reach.
⭕⚫
Black is 1 square (5 feet) away from red.
Black could be affected by, say, a regular melee attack.
⭕
Black is a tiny-sized creature, sharing red's space.
Having a reach of 0 feet, black can Strike red.
This is...
when...
emojis...
become super useful ^_^⭕⬜⬜⚫
Black is 3 squares (15 feet) away from red.
Black could be affected by, say, burning hands.⭕⬜⚫
Black is 2 squares (10 feet) away from red.
Black could be affected by, say, a weapon with reach.⭕⚫
Black is 1 square (5 feet) away from red.
Black could be affected by, say, a regular melee attack.⭕
Black is a tiny-sized creature, sharing red's space.
Having a reach of 0 feet, black can Strike red.
My emoji-based template guide (based on Ravingdork's suggestion).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
.
.
.
.
.
.
Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️ = Medium Caster
⬛ = Affected Empty Square
⚫ = Affected Enemy Square
⬜ = Unaffected Empty Square
⭕ = Unaffected Enemy Square
30' Line
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⭕
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Cone
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⭕
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Emanation
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜
⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⭕
⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜
⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
So with six squares between the caster and the enemy, all three effects fall just short of the enemy.
So in my exemple:
YXXXXXXZ
6 squares of movement would be
YXXXXXXZ
------YZ Which means a 30 ft. move gets you in reach, but a 30ft. range spell does not reach?Feels... kinda weird ?
I'm legit not sure where to draw the line here. Literally.
Let's walk through the process. (Pun intended.)
Our two characters have six empty squares between them. As I showed above, the 30' line fails to reach the enemy because the two characters are 35' apart. Let's have the caster walk 5' at a time toward the enemy and cast a 30' line spell at each step. (Note that at every stage the distance walked plus the distance remaining adds up to 35'.)
Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️ = Medium Caster
⬛ = Affected Empty Square
⚫ = Affected Enemy Square
⬜ = Unaffected Empty Square
⭕ = Unaffected Enemy Square
30' Line. 0' of walking. 35' apart.
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⭕⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Line. 5' of walking. 30' apart.
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⚫⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Line. 10' of walking. 25' apart.
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⬛⬛⚫⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Line. 15' of walking. 20' apart.
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⬛⚫⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Line. 20' of walking. 15' apart.
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⬛⚫⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Line. 25' of walking. 10' apart.
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⬛⚫⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
30' Line. 30' of walking. 5' apart.
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜Ⓜ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️⚫⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
Because the characters are now 5' apart, 5' reach is enough to punch each other. (30' of movement plus 5' of reach equals 35' of total distance.)
The spell couldn't affect the enemy in the first case, even though its effects also 'moved' 30', because the spell lacks the extra 5' of 'reach' that a fist has.
Does that help?