Can one take Improved Combat Maneuver for the Solarian's Eclipse Defense?


Rules Questions


Eclipse Defense (Starfinder #35: Merchants of the Void pg. 53) is a KAC+8 like most other combat maneuvers. So can a solarian take Improved Combat Maneuver(ICM): Eclipse Defense for a +4 to use this revelation? Would the +4 bonus from the ICM stack with +4 when Graviton attuned for a +8, both are unnamed bonuses?


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No. Just because it has a few things in common with a combat maneuver does not make it a combat maneuver. Just like dolphins aren't fish because they have fins and swim like sharks.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Agreed. Combat maneuvers are, by their nature, available to all classes. A class specific ability cannot, therefore, be a combat maneuver.


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E-div_drone wrote:
Agreed. Combat maneuvers are, by their nature, available to all classes. A class specific ability cannot, therefore, be a combat maneuver.

that... doesn't follow. Starfinder abilities aren't platonically tied to ideas. Absolutely nothing prevents there from being a square dancing vesk envoy ability "swing your partner" which lets you do a special combat maneuver to people or something. It would be weird, but not contradictory


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have yet to see a class ability that grants a new combat maneuver and calls it such. I have seen several that modify the rules for how a combat maneuver may be used. I would be interested to see any class abilities that you, or anyone else, can recall that grant an all new combat maneuver.


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E-div_drone wrote:
I have yet to see a class ability that grants a new combat maneuver and calls it such. I have seen several that modify the rules for how a combat maneuver may be used. I would be interested to see any class abilities that you, or anyone else, can recall that grant an all new combat maneuver.

Your making the mistake of assuming that because something doesn't exist, that means the rules forbid it from existing. Not everything that isn't explicitly allowed by the rules is banned, quite the contrary.

So, yes, the reason this particular Solarian ability can't benefit from Improved Combat Maneuver is because it doesn't actually say its a combat maneuver. This does *not* mean that there is some unstated, unwritten law that No Class Ability Can Create A Combat Maneuver.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Metaphysician wrote:

You're making the mistake of assuming that because something doesn't exist, that means the rules forbid it from existing. Not everything that isn't explicitly allowed by the rules is banned, quite the contrary.

So, yes, the reason this particular Solarian ability can't benefit from Improved Combat Maneuver is because it doesn't actually say its a combat maneuver. This does *not* mean that there is some unstated, unwritten law that No Class Ability Can Create A Combat Maneuver.

Given the rules for Combat Maneuvers, I find it highly unlikely that there will ever be a class ability that counts as one. That said, if Paizo proves me wrong, they would need to explicitly state that the given ability is/counts as a CM.


E-div_drone wrote:
Metaphysician wrote:

You're making the mistake of assuming that because something doesn't exist, that means the rules forbid it from existing. Not everything that isn't explicitly allowed by the rules is banned, quite the contrary.

So, yes, the reason this particular Solarian ability can't benefit from Improved Combat Maneuver is because it doesn't actually say its a combat maneuver. This does *not* mean that there is some unstated, unwritten law that No Class Ability Can Create A Combat Maneuver.
Given the rules for Combat Maneuvers, I find it highly unlikely that there will ever be a class ability that counts as one. That said, if Paizo proves me wrong, they would need to explicitly state that the given ability is/counts as a CM.

It's more of a... Most paizo writers and contract writers aren't so unfamiliar with the source material that they would ever write a class feature that creates a new type of combat maneuver.

But it's still technically a possibility according to the rules, because PF1 had a lot of weird stuff pop up over the years. So you have to remember that bit, even though it will probably never happen.


Garretmander wrote:


But it's still technically a possibility according to the rules, because PF1 had a lot of weird stuff pop up over the years. So you have to remember that bit, even though it will probably never happen.

The vexing dodger (IE giant fighter rogue archetype) had a climb check as a combat manuever that would let you climb on people and get bonuses against them. Grr, my kitsune foxform fighter, loved that one because everyone is a giant to him.

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