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OK. So the "closest we have" to an explanation of how rage powers work is "they don't work from other sources, and the Feat "Extra Rage Power" is another source."
That part is fine. So what happens if, say, we have a Spell Warrior Skald who's doing the following:
3rd level takes Celestial Totem (lesser)
6th level takes Celestial Blood (lesser)
7th level FEAT takes Celestial Blood
9th level takes Celestial Totem
At 12th level, takes Celestial Blood, Greater.
Now, that is a GREATER ability shared with everyone who gets their Weapon Song. But they don't get the Celestial Blood from the FEAT. So no resistance from the 7th level feat, but they DO get the benefits of the GREATER blood?
That is my understanding of it, because the only requirement to BENEFIT from it is it must be active (the people gaining the ability don't have to qualify by having the rage ability themselves).
Concerns? Abuse? Comments?
TLDR: Can a Skald skip to handing out GREATER rage powers if they use feats to take the lessers?
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OK. So the "closest we have" to an explanation of how rage powers work is "they don't work from other sources, and the Feat "Extra Rage Power" is another source."
That part is fine. So what happens if, say, we have a Spell Warrior Skald who's doing the following:
3rd level takes Celestial Totem (lesser)
6th level takes Celestial Blood (lesser)
7th level FEAT takes Celestial Blood
9th level takes Celestial Totem
At 12th level, takes Celestial Blood, Greater.
Now, that is a GREATER ability shared with everyone who gets their Weapon Song. But they don't get the Celestial Blood from the FEAT. So no resistance from the 7th level feat, but they DO get the benefits of the GREATER blood?
That is my understanding of it, because the only requirement to BENEFIT from it is it must be active (the people gaining the ability don't have to qualify by having the rage ability themselves).
Concerns? Abuse? Comments?
TLDR: Can a Skald skip to handing out (with spell song) GREATER rage powers if they use feats (other sources) to take the lessers?
"If a rage power requires another rage power (such as disruptive, which requires superstition), the skald cannot grant that rage power to allies unless he can also grant that power’s prerequisite."
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This is why I don't consider 'Extra Rage Power' as another 'source' of Rage Powers. It creates too many inconsistencies and gaps for issues like this to pop up in. I consider a different 'source' of rage powers to be one in which does not draw from the Skald's class abilities. Extra Rage Power does draw from that class feature to select additional powers.
Regardless of how I handle the issue, Derklord is correct on this matter. If you stick with the 'no other source' and count 'Extra Rage Power' as a different source, you must be able to provide the prerequisite rage powers (not just effects) to your allies for them to benefit from the higher ones.
Personally, I think that the "other sources" thing was to cut down on people who take a level dip on Primalist Bloodrager, and joink two free rage powers as well as fast movement from it.
Primalist doesn't grant rage powers until 4th level.
I'm very sure that the Extra Rage Power feat is indeed the main reason for that line. Sharing rage powers is so powerful that otherwise 99% of all Skald builds would take ERP in every single feat slot. Paizo shutting that down is a good thing, for both balance and build variety.
It creates too many inconsistencies and gaps for issues like this to pop up in.
"issues like this"? There is no issue here, the OP just didn't read the whole class feature description.
"issues like this"? There is no issue here, the OP just didn't read the whole class feature description.
Yes, issues like this. And others stemming from overly legalistic readings of other abilities. We can never fully account for the human element of never fully reading the abilities or properly piecing everything together, because people are not perfect and language is an imperfect means to convey meaning.
How individual players choose to (ab)use the mechanics is a whole different topic and is handled by the GMs at their tables. A Skald that chooses ERP at every opportunity is quickly going to find out that such choices are not the best ones, because the game is not all about combat. If someone wants to pull a one trick pony, it becomes fairly easy to show them how poor a decision that is. Regardless, they should have the option of choosing it.
A Skald that chooses ERP at every opportunity is quickly going to find out that such choices are not the best ones
*Immature giggling*
We can never fully account for the human element of never fully reading the abilities or properly piecing everything together, because people are not perfect and language is an imperfect means to convey meaning.
Speaking of yourself, here? Because let's be real, the actual issue is your own inability to understand, or accept, that a feat that requires a class feature isn't an extension of that class feature. That's the official position, by the way, not just my interpretation.
A Skald that chooses ERP at every opportunity is quickly going to find out that such choices are not the best ones, because the game is not all about combat.
I'm not sure if you're being deliberately dishonest so you don't have to admit that that the issues you claim don't actually exist, or if you truly think that a 6/9 caster with around 6+Int skill ranks per level, a bonus to knowledge and strength-based skills, Scribe Scroll, and the ability to access other spell lists at a moment's notice was bad out of combat if they spend all their feats on combat stuff.
In either case, I'm done discussing this with you. Have fun in your make-believe reality where a feat is a class feature.
Speaking of yourself, here? Because let's be real, the actual issue is your own inability to understand, or accept, that a feat that requires a class feature isn't an extension of that class feature. That's the official position, by the way, not just my interpretation.
No, I am not speaking for myself and I'd appreciate it if you kept the comments a bit more civil. There is no need for insinuations like that. My personal distaste for the ruling has no bearing on my understanding of the reasoning behind the ruling. I offered my opinion on the matter and was quite clear on how it differed from the official stance.
I'm not sure if you're being deliberately dishonest so you don't have to admit that that the issues you claim don't actually exist, or if you truly think that a 6/9 caster with around 6+Int skill ranks per level, a bonus to knowledge and strength-based skills, Scribe Scroll, and the ability to access other spell lists at a moment's notice was bad out of combat if they spend all their feats on combat stuff.
If you notice, I never said it was a 'bad' choice or that they would be 'bad' outside of combat. I merely said it was not the 'best' choice. If you want to be that black and white about choices, that is your choice.
In either case, I'm done discussing this with you. Have fun in your make-believe reality where a feat is a class feature.
If you are done, then feel free to not respond further. It might even been for the best as you seem intent on disparaging those that differ from you in thought.
Regardless, a feat that gives you an additional class feature (like Extra Hex, or Extra Magus Arcana, or Extra Arcanist Exploit) should not have the feature it grants you count as anything less than the same feature granted by your class inherently. That is my opinion on the matter and how I run it in my games. You are free to disagree. I am of the mind that if the developers wanted to be quite clear on the matter, they should have put a hard limit on the number of rage powers a Skald could share with their Inspire Rage ability, one that coincides with how many they SHOULD have based on their current level. Then, it wouldn't matter HOW many rage powers a Skald has access to, they would only be able to give away X amount.