Would you allow a spontaneous caster to learn heightened spell straight away at level up?

[Errenor]

Meaning without her having that spell at some level below maximal? Like prepared casters could do every day? Do you even know this rule, that you can take only heightened spells you already knew before?
This is such a terrible-terrible tedious game with swapping a base spell in, learning the heightened version, swapping the base spell out during two level-ups...

[Castilliano]

A spontaneous caster can gain a spell at a higher/heightened level for their repertoire w/o already having it at a lower level. They still wouldn't be able to cast it at a different spell level (higher or lower) unless it's chosen as a signature spell.

[Errenor]

Castilliano wrote:

A spontaneous caster can gain a spell at a higher/heightened level for their repertoire w/o already having it at a lower level. They still wouldn't be able to cast it at a different spell level (higher or lower) unless it's chosen as a signature spell.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sorcerer wrote:

When you add spells, you might select a higher-level version of a spell you already know so that you can cast a heightened version of that spell.

Bard wrote:

When you add spells, you might add a higher-level version of a spell you already have, so you can cast a heightened version of that spell.

Oracle wrote:

When you add spells, you might add a higher-level version of a spell you already have, so you can cast a heightened version of that spell.

Summoners are wave casters and all their spells are signature so they are exempt.

[Nefreet]

Sure. You "might". You also might not.

You're being convinced by your own bolding that that's how it works.

[Errenor]

Nefreet wrote:

Sure. You "might". You also might not.

You're being convinced by your own bolding that that's how it works.

You might add or you might not, but of a spell you already have. What else could this mean?

[nicholas storm]

It works as posted above by Castilliano.

If you reread the sentences you posted, there is nothing that requires you to have a lower level version of the spell.

[Blake's Tiger]

What the above are trying to point out to you is this:

If you have Magic Missile (1st) in your repertoire, you might add Magic Missile (2nd) to your repertoire rather than making it a signature spell.

It does not require ("must") you to have learned Fear (1st) in order to add Fear (3rd).

[Errenor]

Blake's Tiger wrote:

What the above are trying to point out to you is this:

If you have Magic Missile (1st) in your repertoire, you might add Magic Missile (2nd) to your repertoire rather than making it a signature spell.

It does not require ("must") you to have learned Fear (1st) in order to add Fear (3rd).

Okay... I think I understand now. I do read the sentence correctly. What I do not read correctly is the intent. It is there not to establish the order of getting heightened spells into repertoire, but to say that it is possible to have several versions of a spell in repertoire at different levels. The order of getting heightened spells is given by just

Heightening Spells wrote:

When you get spell slots of 2nd level and higher, you can fill those slots with stronger versions of lower-level spells.

It's a relief, actually.

Also the topic turned out to be a rules question after all. :)

[Gisher]

Errenor wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Sure. You "might". You also might not.

You're being convinced by your own bolding that that's how it works.

You might add or you might not, but of a spell you already have. What else could this mean?

Imagine that you have a sorcerer who focuses on blasting, but also wants to do some healing. At 1st level you learn the Heal spell so you can cast it using your 1st level slots.

At 3rd level you'd like to be able to use your 2nd level spell slots for Heal in addition to your 1st level slots, but you want to use your signature spells for blasting spells. So you declare that you are going to learn the heightened version of Heal while keeping the un-heightened version.

The text you cited is there to make it clear that you are allowed to know multiple versions of the same spell. Without that text, people might think that Signature spells are the only way to use the same spell in different level slots.

[Ravingdork]

Yep. The other posters are correct.

If my sorcerer turned 7th-level, and I wanted to take fireball as a signature spell, even though I did not add fireball to my repertoire at 5th- or 6th-level, I could.

Taking something that same level meets the qualifications of "you already know." If that wasn't the case, you couldn't take "Feat B" and "Feat A" at the same level, when A was a prerequisite for B. If it didn't work that way, this game would be WAY too much of a headache to ever play.

No need for me to know fireball first, or to have to bother with any retraining shenanigans.

Alternatively, instead of making it a signature spell, I could take fireball as a 3rd-level spell when my sorcerer reaches 5th-level, then take it again as a 4th-level spell when my sorcerer reaches 7th-level. This would eat up two repertoire spells rather than one, but would free me up to choose two other spells in my repertoire as signature spells while still allowing me to cast fireball at all (currently) available spell levels.

[breithauptclan]

The wording might be a bit ambiguous, but I think it falls under 'too bad to be true' to require a Sorcerer to learn both a base level of a spell and the heightened level of the spell when all they actually want is the heightened level.

[Errenor]

breithauptclan wrote:

The wording might be a bit ambiguous, but I think it falls under 'too bad to be true' to require a Sorcerer to learn both a base level of a spell and the heightened level of the spell when all they actually want is the heightened level.

Yeah, I thought so too. So much so that I've already ignored that 'rule' myself. But then I wanted to know what others think about it. Good thing it turned out it's not even a rule. :)