Hello!
Help me plz! What type of damage can reflect Retribution hex?
If attacker is barbarian, he reflect physical damage. Nice!
But if attacker is wizard with Chill Touch, does this damage reflect to attacker?
Or if the attacker have combined type of damage, like magus with Shocking Grasp when using Spellstrike?
Sacred Weapon Damage from warpriest?
What about Precision Damage like Sneak Attack? Can it reflected?
Special ability like constrict?
as the hex say nothing of the type of damage it deal - it deal untyped damage (which kinda explain why it also bypass dr and such).
all the hex care was, did the cursed person deal damage with a melee attack - as in he rolled an attack to hit the target (notice. it doesn't care if it was touch attack or normal ac attack. all it care is if it was melee attack).
if it was a melee attack and damage was dealt. the cursed attacker take an amount of untyped damage equal to half the damage that his own attack did (round down i suppose as always).
note. it seems that since there is no specific difference pointed out. ability damage dealt is also reflect back at half price. same for non-lethal damage.
probably not rai as this can lead into knocking out constructs and undead and dealing ability damage to things that have no score to reduce from (con damage to undead\constructs for example or strength to shadows) "This damage bypasses any resistances, immunities, or damage reduction the creature possesses.".
as the hex say nothing of the type of damage it deal - it deal untyped damage (which kinda explain why it also bypass dr and such).
all the hex care was, did the cursed person deal damage with a melee attack - as in he rolled an attack to hit the target (notice. it doesn't care if it was touch attack or normal ac attack. all it care is if it was melee attack).
if it was a melee attack and damage was dealt. the cursed attacker take an amount of untyped damage equal to half the damage that his own attack did (round down i suppose as always).
note. it seems that since there is no specific difference pointed out. ability damage dealt is also reflect back at half price. same for non-lethal damage.
probably not rai as this can lead into knocking out constructs and undead and dealing ability damage to things that have no score to reduce from (con damage to undead\constructs for example or strength to shadows) "This damage bypasses any resistances, immunities, or damage reduction the creature possesses.".
you mean if attacker is magus, who deal 19 dmg from scimitar and 60 dmg from shocking grasp, he take 50% from summary damage back (39 dmg?)?
you mean if attacker is magus, who deal 19 dmg from scimitar and 60 dmg from shocking grasp, he take 50% from summary damage back (38 dmg?)?as the hex say nothing of the type of damage it deal - it deal untyped damage (which kinda explain why it also bypass dr and such).
all the hex care was, did the cursed person deal damage with a melee attack - as in he rolled an attack to hit the target (notice. it doesn't care if it was touch attack or normal ac attack. all it care is if it was melee attack).
if it was a melee attack and damage was dealt. the cursed attacker take an amount of untyped damage equal to half the damage that his own attack did (round down i suppose as always).
note. it seems that since there is no specific difference pointed out. ability damage dealt is also reflect back at half price. same for non-lethal damage.
probably not rai as this can lead into knocking out constructs and undead and dealing ability damage to things that have no score to reduce from (con damage to undead\constructs for example or strength to shadows) "This damage bypasses any resistances, immunities, or damage reduction the creature possesses.".
yes
very much so. what more the shocking grasp specifically use the melee attack crit range instead of spell for the damage so it's more so part of it.but if you notice i also said that a melee touch attack will also be reflected. so even if he didn't use his sword but touched him for X cold\fire\electricity etc damage. since he used a melee attack (not if he shoot him with ,say scorching ray) then half goes back.
want more? combat maneuvers can be done in melee (and in rare cases at range. aka ranged trip. ranged disarm etc).
since combat maneuvers are called out to be attack rolls. and since most of them are melee (except for rare ones as mentioned above) a maneuver that directly deal damage (like a grapple check to deal damage. or overrun with a feat\ability that add damage to it etc) -would also be reflected back at half to the attacker.
(probably also constrict since it call out to deal if the grapple check is made. same thing as an attack that immediately deal damage).
on the other hand melee damage that call for no attack roll. or ranged attacks that call for a rolls (or any damage that call for no roll such as magic missile) is not reflected. so having gear that auto deal damage to some1 who grapple you (like armor spikes if you read it in a way or clawhand shield that doesn't need a roll to deal damage) will not be reflected.
(armor spikes are funky and contradict themselves in their different references. but seem to say that if some1 grapple you he take the spikes damage, and if you grapple and make a grapple check you can deal damage with them, in one place it doesn't say you need to make the check but was said on the boards to be a miss type)
you mean if attacker is magus, who deal 19 dmg from scimitar and 60 dmg from shocking grasp, he take 50% from summary damage back (38 dmg?)?as the hex say nothing of the type of damage it deal - it deal untyped damage (which kinda explain why it also bypass dr and such).
all the hex care was, did the cursed person deal damage with a melee attack - as in he rolled an attack to hit the target (notice. it doesn't care if it was touch attack or normal ac attack. all it care is if it was melee attack).
if it was a melee attack and damage was dealt. the cursed attacker take an amount of untyped damage equal to half the damage that his own attack did (round down i suppose as always).
note. it seems that since there is no specific difference pointed out. ability damage dealt is also reflect back at half price. same for non-lethal damage.
probably not rai as this can lead into knocking out constructs and undead and dealing ability damage to things that have no score to reduce from (con damage to undead\constructs for example or strength to shadows) "This damage bypasses any resistances, immunities, or damage reduction the creature possesses.".yes
very much so. what more the shocking grasp specifically use the melee attack crit range instead of spell for the damage so it's more so part of it.but if you notice i also said that a melee touch attack will also be reflected. so even if he didn't use his sword but touched him for X cold\fire\electricity etc damage. since he used a melee attack (not if he shoot him with ,say scorching ray) then half goes back.
want more? combat maneuvers can be done in melee (and in rare cases at range. aka ranged trip. ranged disarm etc).
since combat maneuvers are called out to be attack rolls. and since most of them are melee (except for rare ones as mentioned above) a maneuver that directly deal damage (like a grapple check to deal damage. or overrun with a feat\ability that add damage to it etc)...
WOOOOOOW!!!!! This is amazing hex 0_0 !!!!!!
Thanks for answer! =)
do notice :
1: it's a major hex. can't be taken before 10th level (which explain it's awesomeness compared to normal hexs)
2: it has a will save to negate (once when used. not every round)
3: it's duration is round/int bonus point of witch.
at this level it should last a fight. BUT if not-
-4: Unlike a lot of other hexs - it say nothing about only using once per 24 hours on a target - you can keep trying to get the target with it as long as you care to.
(this can be a nasty surprise to do on a non suspecting person, as it's not a spell it's hard to tell that the witch used her power on the target, all he knows is that he get hurt when he deal damage to others. hack he would probably need knowledge arcane dc 20 to know what causes this,10 +10 for the minimum hd to get the ability. and if he make the save all he knows is that something attacked him mentaly. also can be used to train a dog not to bite...)
do notice :
1: it's a major hex. can't be taken before 10th level (which explain it's awesomeness compared to normal hexs)
2: it has a will save to negate (once when used. not every round)
3: it's duration is round/int bonus point of witch.at this level it should last a fight. BUT if not-
-4: Unlike a lot of other hexs - it say nothing about only using once per 24 hours on a target - you can keep trying to get the target with it as long as you care to.
Yes I know about 10lvl, will save and duration. Now I'm playing human witch 8 (STR patron)/barbarian (Dreadnought) 1 and looks like on this picture. =)
I hope I'm survive to 10 lvl =))))
nice! if you got feats to spare, 3 feats get you an animal companion at your level. a big tanky beast should always be welcome.
1 = +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nature) checks and Survival checks. +4 when\if ranks get to 10.
2 = gain companion at level -3. (limited list)
3 = rise up to +4 for companion level. no more then your level.
nice! if you got feats to spare, 3 feats get you an animal companion at your level. a big tanky beast should always be welcome.
1 = +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nature) checks and Survival checks. +4 when\if ranks get to 10.
2 = gain companion at level -3. (limited list)
3 = rise up to +4 for companion level. no more then your level.
One player from our party have big cat animal companion =)
But when I'm writing about "survive", I mean our strange party, where 1 witch, 3 rangers and 1 archer-druid (without Wild Shape) =))))We all looks like
Thanks again for the answers! =)
Nowhere in the description of the hex does it say it is reflecting damage.
Effect: A witch can place a retribution hex on a creature within 60 feet, causing terrible wounds to open across the target’s flesh whenever it deals damage to another creature in melee. Immediately after the hexed creature deals damage in melee, it takes half that damage (round down). This damage bypasses any resistances, immunities, or damage reduction the creature possesses. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the witch’s Intelligence modifier. A Will save negates this effect.
What it says is that whenever the targeted creature damages another creature in melee combat it takes half that damage rounded down. It also specifies that this damage cannot be avoided by the target no matter what resistances immunities or damage reduction. The fact that it can bypass the hexed creature’s defenses would indicate it is not reflecting the damage. For example, let’s say the witch uses the hex on a blue dragon and the blue dragon casts shocking grasp on someone while affected. The blue dragon is normally immune to electricity, but still takes half the damage it did to its target.
A little semantic for people who pointed out ignoring resistances/immunities/etc. at the start...
As i said. The damage from the hex is untyped. No matter the form the attack dealt hp damage.
The question lie what happen in case of non lethal or ability damage. Sine hit points were not mentioned.
I meant: what types of attacks and damage return to the cursed creature?
A normal physical attack, such as a barbarian, will definitely return.
But will touch attacks return?
And how does a combined attack of physical and elemental damage (like a magus spellstrike) reflect?
And other examples...
Looking at the answers, I realized that all the attacks delivered with the STR (some time DEX, like from Weapon Finesse feat) modifier are reflected.
It doesn't matter if it's a spell or an ability. You just need to return 50% of the total damage.
Right?
Sorry for my bad English =)
Any time the target of the hex delivers any damage with a melee attack they take half the damage. It does not matter what type of damage as long as it was delivered by a melee attack.
The target can still attack with ranged attacks without taking any damage in return. So if the target stabs you with a dagger you take half the damage you did to the target, including thing like a magus using shocking grasp through spell strike. If the target of the hex throws the same dagger at someone they don’t take any damage.
Attacks that do not do actual damage are not affected either.
Thanks for all answers =)
Rule As Intended (RAI), I am convinced that the hex is meant to affect only hit point damage, not other kinds of damage like ability damage.
Agreed - almost always, when the rules say "damage", they mean "HP damage", as evident by this FAQ.
Looking at the answers, I realized that all the attacks delivered with the STR (some time DEX, like from Weapon Finesse feat) modifier are reflected.
Not at all. You can have ranged attacks modified with strength, and melee attacks modified by wisdom or charisma.
If you want a rule-of-thumb: All HP damage rolled as part of a melee attack (i.e. requires a successful melee attack roll) is affected. The damage for delivering a touch spell is rolled as part of the attack (whether it's as a normal touch attack, via Spellstrike, or done later with a unarmed strike or natural attack), but e.g. bleed damage is not.
That leaves out some ambiguous stuff especially related to grappling, but that probably won't make a difference in practise.
WOOOOOOW!!!!! This is amazing hex 0_0 !!!!!!
It does have some major issues, though. Monsters tend to have more HP than PCs, especially melee monsters, which allows enemies to favourably trade HP even when hexed with Retribution. Dito for melee combatants with class levels, at least when they attack more squishy targets. This results in the hex not preventing any damage until the target's HP get low. It also only affects melee attacks, which are the easiest effects to defend against, and doesn't do anything about spells, SLAs, supernatural abilities like breath weapons, or any kind of ranged attack, which are usually the most dangerous things to face.