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As far as the aeon stone, there’s a difference between ‘fed’ and ‘happy’. Imagine never having your favourite pizza or whatever ever again. Also, there’s the issue of having that many credits on hand at one time, which is an issue with real life purchases too — the Sam Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of economic inequality.
Spindles: I think you could make an argument for them having reasons for being more common that perhaps presented, but I imagine there are plenty of reason why people might choose not to rely on them, and prefer the old fashioned method of keeping oneself from getting hungry.
Interesting enough, one could imagine the really poor workers potentially being issued one to reduce the cost of feeding them. [just deduct the rental from their pay] and it reduces the supply costs and potentially keeps them from needing to take lunch breaks and such, potentially leading to other potential increased productivity.
It also makes perfect sense for colonists to have a significant supply of them, if not one for everyone.
Healing: Serums etc. Keeping in mind that in Starfinder, NPCs don't necessarily follow all the same rules as players. Just because if a player ever gets injured, by default, they can always be healed by a healing serum or Hypopen, that doesn't necessarily follow that NPCs never get injured in ways that they would require more treatment than a healing serum or hypopen. So having a medbay/hospital may still be a necesity to treat the NPC injuries that occur. Not all beings in Starfinder have Plot armor allowing them to almost always be able to be healed by simple means.
Gate Ritual: I'll have to look up the details on them. But I agree that Gates would make sense to be owned and used by many large organizations, be they corporations, societies, or governments. I'm not sure their limits. (placing them on a mobile platform like a ship seems like it might be pushing a limit, for instance) But I don't know the defined applications, originally defined being allowed.
Tiara: I'd agree there would be definite use for these. However it is worthy to note that with the random chance of mishap could make them very dangerous. Perhaps safer than in a war zone/blockaded area, but there would have to be practical considerations (like wearing space-suits for travel) when jumping to a different planet, as if they go off target, they may be in deep space for 24 hours, assuming they don't happen to pop up inside a planet, asteroid or star due to their being thown off target. But they certainly would be very useful in time constrained transfers between areas that people are very familiar with.
As for some other things:
Things like Morphic Skin: for 370 (1st level) seems like a very reasonable item for many sorts of criminals to have, almost as a basis. Being able to never appear the same would make identifying them very problematic if they didn't get caught in the act.
I think the gill sheath and some of the other augmentations would be popular for particular situations where a species is going to live in an environment that wasn't their typical. But that kind of is more to be expected given the fantasy setting so I don't think it falls into the unanticipated.
If the usage of a commodity increases without an equal increase in supply, that will increase its price.
If people began to buy up various adventurer items, it would increase their price, which is already inflated compared to their utility.
So in my opinion the short answer is that it doesn't.
If the usage of a commodity increases without an equal increase in supply, that will increase its price.
That doesn't apply in a starfinder universe. Somethings price tops out at the number of UPBs it takes to make
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That doesn't apply in a starfinder universe. Somethings price tops out at the number of UPBs it takes to make
That's inaccurate, the prices given for items in the books are stated to be their Typical price, not their fixed price and we have plothooks and sections that mention characters jacking up the prices of their stuff.
In addition we know that buying items of higher level can involve increased prices because of the increased effort that goes into the seller obtaining the item for you.
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That's inaccurate,
It is entirely accurate
Rather than buying mass-produced, mass-marketed equipment, characters with the right skills can construct their own equipment. This takes time, and due to the economies of scale enjoyed by multisystem corporations and shops with dedicated construction machines and drones, it does not save you any money. However, it allows you to acquire exactly what you need, as long as you can meet the construction requirements.
Note that it doesn't cost you any money either.
To create an item, you must have UPBs with a total value equal to the price of the item to be created. At the GM’s discretion, you can scavenge similar items for parts, allowing 10% of the scavenged item’s value to count toward the UPBs needed. Even magic and hybrid items are created using UPBs, as the Mysticism skill is used to form the materials into runes and specific implements for rituals utilized in the creation of magic devices.
If the scenarios haven't always caught up with that technological reality well.. that's the point of the thread.
You can’t pick and choose when “reality” is applied if your argument is for realism.
If the premise is tech/magic items altering the setting and a realistic outcome then pricing comes of that too, as well as numerous other factors.
For the tiara's , I don't think people can appreciate how much space a cargo hold can.. well hold.
A single cargo hold is 25 tons
50,000 pounds
7.5 Bulk averages 1 pound
=6,666 Bulk. That is a LOT of trips back and forth with the tiara. You're going to have a mishap trying to make up for a ship.
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There's also the problem that the set up you're describing costs a bazillion credits and you have to trust one person not to run off on you with it.
Yes, you're trusting a starship crew with the same thing, but
thats multiple indivduals that need to work together to steal your ship
they can't fit a starship in their back pocket
Ships don't normally go missing the tiara is going to go missing 1% of the time or worse
Stolen ships get tracked or sighted or picked up by police. Stolen tiara's not so much.
There's a LOT of dm discretion in how bad a similar or nearby place can be. I mean galactic distance wise 1 Au from Absolom station to the sun isn't very far...
only costs a little less than 250k for 80 Chambers.
That might reasonably be the cost of a ship.
I think we have too many unknowns here and ... thats probably by design
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That's inaccurate,It is entirely accurate
Rather than buying mass-produced, mass-marketed equipment, characters with the right skills can construct their own equipment. This takes time, and due to the economies of scale enjoyed by multisystem corporations and shops with dedicated construction machines and drones, it does not save you any money. However, it allows you to acquire exactly what you need, as long as you can meet the construction requirements.
I don't see how that conflicts with what I said or supports what you said.
I don't see how that conflicts with what I said or supports what you said.
Really?
If you try to jack up the prices of a Monomolecular widget in the real world during a shortage, your monommolecular widget factory makes money because no one else has a factory set up to make those. IRL trying to make things without a factory is prohibitively expensive on orders of magnitude and people can't just instantly set up a factory to make them.
If you try to do that in the starfinder universe every Tom Dick and Ik thu chtulargh can download the STL file and print off anything they want, and the cost difference between printing it off yourself and buying it is mentioned in the core rules as being a matter of scale, like, less than a percent difference.
Really?
Yes.
You are aware that UBPs and the skill required to turn them into stuff Aren't free right?
If you try to jack up the prices of a Monomolecular widget in the real world during a shortage, your monommolecular widget factory makes money because no one else has a factory set up to make those. IRL trying to make things without a factory is prohibitively expensive on orders of magnitude and people can't just instantly set up a factory to make them.
If you try to do that in the starfinder universe every Tom Dick and Ik thu chtulargh can download the STL file and print off anything they want, and the cost difference between printing it off yourself and buying it is mentioned in the core rules as being a matter of scale, like, less than a percent difference.
I feel like you're ignoring that you can't just make anything. You can't just print off anything you want, as it takes mystical, biological, and technological know-how to construct things. Average Joe probably does not have Computers, Engineering, Life Science, & Mysticism 4, to construct level all 4 items.
The only time you can ignore this is when a company or group has made printing stations that do prefabs.
You are aware that UBPs and the skill required to turn them into stuff Aren't free right?
Yes. As in it doesn't cost you any more money to print than to buy it. Not that it didn't cost any money.
One UPB is one credit. The credit is on the UPB standard.
If you raise the price of an item very far above its standard price/UPB amount, people start making it themselves.
I feel like you're ignoring that you can't just make anything.
And I feel like you're deliberately ignoring the context that anything is said in just so you can ignore every point.
You can't just print off anything you want, as it takes mystical, biological, and technological know-how to construct things. Average Joe probably does not have Computers, Engineering, Life Science, & Mysticism 4, to construct level all 4 items.
Someone in town does and they can turn their garage into a monomoleculare widget factory in 15 minutes. Thats going to limit how far you can jack prices before people just set up shop and undercut you.
The only time you can ignore this is when a company or group has made printing stations that do prefabs.
Printing stations are available at the same rate as hotels, assuming that you need more than a garage and a table described in the crafting section.
The means of production in starfinder have been heavily democratized.
Yes. As in it doesn't cost you any more money to print than to buy it. Not that it didn't cost any money.
I'm not sorry for not magically knowing you meant 'it costs equal amounts of money' when you wrote 'it is free' in giant letters.
One UPB is one credit. The credit is on the UPB standard.
If you raise the price of an item very far above its standard price/UPB amount, people start making it themselves.
If they can get access to those UPBs to begin with (which they normally can, but wont necessarily always be able to depending on where you are) and have access to the appropriate skill set.
And I feel like you're deliberately ignoring the context that anything is said in just so you can ignore every point.
No, I'm just disagreeing with the conclusions you are drawing from it.
Someone in town does and they can turn their garage into a monomoleculare widget factory in 15 minutes. Thats going to limit how far you can jack prices before people just set up shop and undercut you.
That might be able to happen in some areas but that sounds like a very contexual thing, not something you can assume as absolute. Even in that very scenario you propose the 'someone in town does' is presumably going to charge a service fee for having to make it which would take it over the UPB price because otherwise the 'set up shop and undercut' you person gets 0 money from it themselves and their business auto-fails.
Printing stations are available at the same rate as hotels, assuming that you need more than a garage and a table described in the crafting section.
The means of production in starfinder have been heavily democratized.
You're ignoring that those printing stations only print specific things, which is why I mentioned the prefab nature of them. People can spend upbs at premade printing stations to print things that machine allows them to print, it doesn't just let you print anything without having the designs in there.
I'm not sorry for not magically knowing you meant 'it costs equal amounts of money' when you wrote 'it is free' in giant letters.
Friendship is magic. Not context.
and the cost difference between printing it off yourself and buying it is mentioned in the core rules as being a matter of scale, like, less than a percent difference.
If they can get access to those UPBs to begin with (which they normally can, but wont necessarily always be able to depending on where you are) and have access to the appropriate skill set.
If you are out in the boonies you carry UPBs (and probably a grinder) instead of credsticks exactly for reasons like this. Also some cultures will take UPBs that don't take credits. 4
If you are not in the boonies you can exchange 1 credit for 1 UPB at any temple/office of abadar
A starship crafting suite only halves the time to make stuff. The only requirement is a work bench or garage.
That might be able to happen in some areas but that sounds like a very contexual thing, not something you can assume as absolute.
You're ignoring that those printing stations only print specific things
UPB printing does not require specialized equipment and does not only print specific things. It takes the engineer the exact same amount of time to print 2 com units as to print a com unit and a level 1 laser pistol. It takes the same facilities to print a motorcycle or antibiotic. If there's a plague going around, the space port can bring in doctors and start printing antibiotics. If the hospital breaks a part, the head janitor can print off an MRI machine.
Each UPB is a tiny multifunction component, not much larger than a grain of rice, capable of being configured to act as a brace, capacitor, circuit, diode, fastener, insulator, lens, modulator, pipe, resistor, and dozens of other constituent parts. UPBs can even be spun out into fabric, broken down into component chemicals, reconstituted into new chemicals, or supplemented with base materials (such as dirt or sand) to form massive braces or walls. The right combination of hundreds or even thousands of UPBs can create everything from a comm unit to a laser weapon to powered armor. In their raw form, UPBs have a bulk of 1 per 1,000 UPBs, though when aligned and configured they can easily take up less bulk, and when configured for a specific purpose that calls for a minimum size and bracing (possibly combining them with inert materials), they can have a higher bulk.
They are magic replicator fuel and anyone with a flat horizontal surface has a replicator. There is no supply and demand issue as everyone can access upbs and upbs make everything, there is VERY, very little wriggle room to control the means of proudction as you can jack up the price, but not much before people start buying off of etsy. In starfinder etsy can't just make hand turned wooden bowls, its just as easy to print off EyePads , Pew pew lasers, or a motercycle. Corporations and manufacturing are stated above to exist only by skimming on huge economies of scale: if you go beyond that people under cut you.
A starship crafting suite only halves the time to make stuff. The only requirement is a work bench or garage.
You keep saying this as if it in reference/reply to something I've said.
That might be able to happen in some areas but that sounds like a very contexual thing, not something you can assume as absolute.
You're ignoring that those printing stations only print specific things
UPB printing does not require specialized equipment and does not only print specific things. It takes the engineer the exact same amount of time to print 2 com units as to print a com unit and a level 1 laser pistol. It takes the same facilities to print a motorcycle or antibiotic. If there's a plague going around, the space port can bring in doctors and start printing antibiotics. If the hospital breaks a part, the head janitor can print off an MRI machine.
Each UPB is a tiny multifunction component, not much larger than a grain of rice, capable of being configured to act as a brace, capacitor, circuit, diode, fastener, insulator, lens, modulator, pipe, resistor, and dozens of other constituent parts. UPBs can even be spun out into fabric, broken down into component chemicals, reconstituted into...
You're misunderstanding what is being referred to when I say printing stations. The printing stations are places anyone can get certain things printed, and are introduced in Technology Guide's articles. They were being discussed as an exception to 'the skills needed to actually craft the things' because they are the only exception to having people able to craft the thing. Otherwise people need the skill ranks to craft.
The head janitor is unlikely to have the engineering ranks to craft a friggin MRI machine, so they just flat Cannot just spend 4 hours to craft an MRI machine from UPBs. By default if you don't have the ranks, you can't build it, so will need to buy it from a business or individual that can craft it. Who either will be getting their profits from the mass-production as discussed in the crafting section, or they will be increasing the price from the Typical Price to cover the service and make some profit.
You keep saying this as if it in reference/reply to something I've said.
Because you seem to over estimate what it takes to print things off with UPBs. Case in point...
That might be able to happen in some areas but that sounds like a very contexual thing, not something you can assume as absolute.
You're ignoring that those printing stations only print specific things
You're misunderstanding what is being referred to when I say printing stations.
No. You decided I was talking about printing stations (which i haven't heard of) despite me repeatedly reffering to more common work shops in an effort to introduce some inaccuracy.
The head janitor is unlikely to have the engineering ranks to craft a friggin MRI machine,
Thats what, an Item level 4 in starfinder? For the guy that has to run the boiler, the back up generator, fix anything in a hospital that breaks...4 ranks seems a safe bet.
If a community as a whole doesn't have a pool of skilled labor with x ranks to print the thing off they probably don't have the money to buy it either, especially at jacked up prices.
No. You decided I was talking about printing stations (which i haven't heard of) despite me repeatedly reffering to more common work shops in an effort to introduce some inaccuracy.
Not what happened. The printing station thing was a thing I mentioned explicitly as a 'this is the thing that gets around needing the appropriate skill ranks', until that point printing stations weren't dicussed. You misunderstood that to assume I meant 'any place relating to UBPs', and thus I gave them a definition once I realized you misunderstood what I was referring to. But that's why I keep mentioning the printing stations in that context, as that was the original context of dicussing them to begin with.
Thats what, an Item level 4 in starfinder? For the guy that has to run the boiler, the back up generator, fix anything in a hospital that breaks...4 ranks seems a safe bet.
I disagree with this assumption about skill ranks, but it's not like we have any guidelines or info on 'what the different amounts ranks actually represent' so I suppose that's going to be something neither of us can really verify our perspectives on.
If a community as a whole doesn't have a pool of skilled labor with x ranks to print the thing off they probably don't have the money to buy it either, especially at jacked up prices.
You can be a group skilled in somethings without having people in every field of possible skillset covered, and again if those people aren't you, you'll probably need to pay them for that service.
More in theme with the goal of this thread. I like the idea of some planets and stations having little to no legal restriction on Infaux Spheres. Like if some drow corporation can decide "We are putting an Infaux Sphere into this neighbourhood" as an advertising method.
Also, something to consider is that the UPB is the standard unit of currency. If demand for something buildable by UPBs increases the value, the result isn't that you now need more UPBs arbitrarily, the result is that the value of "One UPB" as a unit of currency changes.
It does not. One credit IS one UPB. The credit is on the UPB standard, it is not an arbitrary currency. (Apparently the dragons were outvoted in going back to the gold standard)
While credsticks are a more convenient and secure way to carry value, UPBs have the advantage of direct utility and untraceability. They are a popular way to pay smugglers and criminals, but they are also useful for trade missions to systems with UPB technology that don’t use credits as currency. The value of the Pact Worlds’ credit is based on the economic utility of a single UPB.
If you need 100 UPBs to print the wildly popular hat of the whirlygig and have 100 credits, the church of abadar will allow you to hand them 100 credits and then hand you 100 upbs. This will limit the amound of inflation you can pump into any item as outlined above. Every step of the process is democratized and freemarket (As Abadar intended apparently)
If you are thinking "but they can't possibly change, because one credit is pegged to one UPB", the answer is "That is why arbitrage exists". Currency exchange rate desychronization *absolutely* exists in the real world, and there is no reason it wouldn't exist in Starfinder either. Local circumstances make either the credit or the UPB more valuable relative to the other. . . and then arbitrageurs jump on that 0.00000001% difference to make a ton of money, and yank the exchange back to balance.
There are several reasons it wouldn't exist to a signifigant degree in starfinder. There is a VAST difference between something existing at all and something existing to the point that you can double (or more) the price of something the way you can in the real world.
First off, you have the church of Abadar, an enormous cultural and economic institution dedicated to ensuring those sorts of economic hijinks DON"T happen, forcing capitalists to actually grow the economy and do something useful to make money. You can go to any church of abadar with a bucket full of credits and walk out with a bucket full of UPBs the same way you can go to a bank and turn the numbers in your bank account into dollar bills. On any individual level the price of things is going to stay the same or have very little variance. You need different currencies for the effect you're talking about, but upbs and credits are the SAME currency.
Secondly, we live in a world where turning money into complex machinery requires very specialized equipment. If you want your burnished aluminum datapad you have to pay the factory that makes them. If you want the drug you need you have to pay the people with the big vats of chemicals and. In starfinder the means of production have been democratized to a ridiculous degree. A factory makes something that costs 100 upbs for 99 upb's and sells a ton of them. That means if you start trying to charge 200 upbs people just make their own.
There is already a difference of .00001 percent baked into the system, thats how people who make UPBs make money. That difference is already reflected in the price of the UPB and objects.