My first time gaming with guns in the party

[Plane]

I love the high fantasy genre. Being separated from technology and living in a time with the old ways and magic is a fantasy for me. The arquebus made a debut in 2nd edition D&D, and I recall thinking the concept was interesting. However, I was never interested in adding guns into my fantasy genre.

When I heard about them for Pathfinder, it was still a no for me. No, I don't even want to think about what that means for the game world. I just want to stick to my high fantasy fantasy. Funny though, my campaign entered an alternate timeline where I had a bizarre goblin community (think Dragonbone Chair trilogy goblins) using them, and my players armed up. So as much as I considered myself a no-guns, high fantasy only gamer, perhaps my stance had room for openings.

Fast forward to P2 today, and I'm in a new group playing a RotR conversion. Someone rolled up a shoony gunslinger, and I'm wondering how I'll reconcile this double slap in the face to my precious genre. I'm not a fan of animal-headed ancestries. They feel low effort from a creativity standpoint: Here's a new ancestry, but instead of a human head, it's a cat's or a dog's or a bird's or a <insert your favorite pet>'s head.

Ok, whatever. I get to play instead of GM for once. I'm already stepping outside of my normal magic-using, optimized characters and playing a heavily handicapped martial for a unique roleplaying challenge. We get through session 0 and session 1, and I didn't have a problem with the guns. I was having too much fun roleplaying, and the shoony's roleplay was great, so what did it matter what ancestry he was using and that he was using guns?

Has this changed my mind? No, but it was a reminder to stay open-minded. I probably won't block guns from future campaigns, and I may or may not employ them as GM. I'm going to continue focusing on group fun and relaxing with friends.

[thenobledrake]

High fantasy and technology are not now, nor have they ever been, mutually exclusive.

Also the arquebus didn't debut in 2nd edition AD&D, firearms and high-tech weapons predate that and have been in D&D in some capacity since basically its beginnings. People often just forgot/overlook that because Gygax had an aversion to letting tech into the game (he let a player be a gunslinging wizard from Arizona transfered over to the Greyhawk setting but insisted on a treatment of a "wand of thundering" instead of a revolver though it was in all ways but name a revolver) so his materials shied away from tech, but the other of the big names to have created the original game (the one whose setting gets the tag-line "the first fantasy campaign") threw in high tech energy weapons, space ships, and all kinds of other stuff as elements of the history of the setting.

[Perpdepog]

Plane wrote:

Has this changed my mind? No, but it was a reminder to stay open-minded. I probably won't block guns from future campaigns, and I may or may not employ them as GM. I'm going to continue focusing on group fun and relaxing with friends.

Thanks for sharing, and this is a lesson it's always good to remember. (Well I suppose it's more like two nested lessons, so thanks twice.)

[WWHsmackdown]

Read thread title as you playing your first game with a table full of people who were strapped, lol. I need to go to bed!

[Plane]

WWHsmackdown wrote:

Read thread title as you playing your first game with a table full of people who were strapped, lol. I need to go to bed!

Lol nothing like a group photo of the party packing heat around the christmas tree! /s

[Castilliano]

thenobledrake wrote:

High fantasy and technology are not now, nor have they ever been, mutually exclusive.

Also the arquebus didn't debut in 2nd edition AD&D, firearms and high-tech weapons predate that and have been in D&D in some capacity since basically its beginnings. People often just forgot/overlook that because Gygax had an aversion to letting tech into the game (he let a player be a gunslinging wizard from Arizona transfered over to the Greyhawk setting but insisted on a treatment of a "wand of thundering" instead of a revolver though it was in all ways but name a revolver) so his materials shied away from tech, but the other of the big names to have created the original game (the one whose setting gets the tag-line "the first fantasy campaign") threw in high tech energy weapons, space ships, and all kinds of other stuff as elements of the history of the setting.

Greyhawk had little tech, but AD&D included it, with a guide on converting stats to or from the Boot Hill RPG (and a futuristic RPG too). There's an iconic Greyhawk NPC (PC in Gygax's campaign) who might be the one you mentioned who carries pistols that use magic for endless bullets. I believe he's Myrland (sp?), the guy who invented the magic spoon which made food. He's known for having acquired the pistols in an alternate dimension (likely Boot Hill because Gygax had run a crossover himself). Though yeah, good luck finding ammo when the only guy with a firearm supplies his own ammo magically.

--
Separately I'd advise you don't necessarily handicap your PC too much since RotR has some really rough moments! (Depending on adaptation of course.)

[Malk_Content]

I'll say this, while previous iterations on the DnD formula may have had "animal head" as low effort (I disagree, it is no more low effort than "short people") NO PF2 ancestry can be described as such. The bare minimum for an ancestry to even exist mechanically in PF2 is just orders of magnitude higher than previous editions. Even as a back matter ancestry (so lowest mechanical offering an ancestry you can really get) have 4 heritages and 13 feats.

[Dragonchess Player]

One nice addition to Guns & Gears, IMO, are the rules for beast guns and the beast gunner archetype for a more magical take on "fantasy guns." Some groups may find beast guns less likely to "distract" them than "traditional" black powder adaptations.

[keftiu]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

One nice addition to Guns & Gears, IMO, are the rules for beast guns and the beast gunner archetype for a more magical take on "fantasy guns." Some groups may find beast guns less likely to "distract" them than "traditional" black powder adaptations.

And their in-setting inspiration, the mythic star guns. It's really fun to see firearms with a legendary treatment and a pre-mortal origin.

Isn't there a demon lord of black powder? I love that feeling.

[Perpdepog]

There's Haagenti, the Demon Lord of transformation and alchemy, though he isn't specifically credited with inventing gunpowder. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had handed out that formula to someone, sometime, though.

You are more likely thinking of the Daemonic Harbinger Cixyron, Harbinger of electricity, gunpowder, and poisonous metals, who is more minor, but always stood out to me as one of the very small handful of deities to have a firearm as their divine weapon.

[Valkeiper]

thenobledrake wrote:

High fantasy and technology are not now, nor have they ever been, mutually exclusive.

Also the arquebus didn't debut in 2nd edition AD&D, firearms and high-tech weapons predate that and have been in D&D in some capacity since basically its beginnings. People often just forgot/overlook that because Gygax had an aversion to letting tech into the game (he let a player be a gunslinging wizard from Arizona transfered over to the Greyhawk setting but insisted on a treatment of a "wand of thundering" instead of a revolver though it was in all ways but name a revolver) so his materials shied away from tech, but the other of the big names to have created the original game (the one whose setting gets the tag-line "the first fantasy campaign") threw in high tech energy weapons, space ships, and all kinds of other stuff as elements of the history of the setting.

HEY!!!

I loved the little black books.
That rather reveals the game, don't it?
Third Imperium, anyone?