Hi everyone,
I can't wrap my head around Tempest Oracle mystery benefit. Here's the text: "When you deal physical damage with a non-cantrip air or water spell, you deal an additional 1 electricity damage per spell level."
What happens when a spell allows a basic save? Do you add the extra damage after rolling the save or is the extra damage affected by the save. The way it is written makes me think that the former is right, even if the latter is more common in the rules.
Some similar effects to compare to that I can think of off-hand.
You and all allies in the area gain a +1 status bonus to ... damage rolls
Each time the target takes damage from a spell or effect with the chosen trait, it takes an additional 2 damage of one damage type dealt by the spell or effect.
Elemental Betrayal clearly happens after the enemy rolls their saving throw and adjusts the damage that the spell deals. Once they are taking damage, then the damage is increased.
Inspire Courage clearly happens before the enemy rolls their saving throw. It is a status bonus to the amount of damage that the spell is dealing, which is determined before the saving throw result is applied.
I would conclude that this Oracle ability is more similar to the Elemental Betrayal effect. It happens as a result of the creature taking damage, so it happens after the saving throw of the spell is applied to the damage.
So if they critically succeed at the spell and take no damage, then the Oracle benefit doesn't trigger at all and they take no electricity damage either. But if they succeed at the save and take half damage from the spell, they would still take the full amount of electricity damage.
The Oracle mystery ability in question is not a weakness being applied to the enemy. The damage type of the extra damage (electricity) isn't even the same type of damage that triggers the ability (physical damage).
And it certainly isn't a resistance or immunity.
Well, as I was expecting, it's not an obvious answer. This sentence really needs clarification.
Actually, both answers are good from my reading. Dealing damage is a long process. You can consider that starting the process means that you are "dealing damage" or that the end of it is the moment you "deal damage".
Damage dealing happens on step 1. Step 2 begins with "Once you’ve calculated how much damage you deal, you’ll need to determine the damage type."
So after step 2, once you determine that you are dealing physical damage because of an air or water spell, then go back to step 1 and add some electricity damage...
Or: After you have successfully finished dealing damage to an enemy because of an air or water spell, then additionally deal some electricity damage as well.
Damage dealing happens on step 1. Step 2 begins with "Once you’ve calculated how much damage you deal, you’ll need to determine the damage type."
So damage dealing doesn't happen on step 1.
Damage dealing happens on Step 4, once you've determined how much damage you deal, of what type and applied resistances.The thing is that you can also consider that "damage dealing" is what you do from step 1 to 4. The issue is that damage dealing is never defined. The chapter is called damage and no sub chapter speaks directly of dealing damage.
That's why you can apply both rulings in my opinion.
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Damage dealing happens on step 1. Step 2 begins with "Once you’ve calculated how much damage you deal, you’ll need to determine the damage type."So damage dealing doesn't happen on step 1.
Damage dealing happens on Step 4, once you've determined how much damage you deal, of what type and applied resistances.The thing is that you can also consider that "damage dealing" is what you do from step 1 to 4. The issue is that damage dealing is never defined. The chapter is called damage and no sub chapter speaks directly of dealing damage.
That's why you can apply both rulings in my opinion.
Yep it is a very basic thing that Paizo have never cleared up.
Additional damage is not defined in the formulae.
The Oracle mystery ability in question is not a weakness being applied to the enemy. The damage type of the extra damage (electricity) isn't even the same type of damage that triggers the ability (physical damage).
And it certainly isn't a resistance or immunity.
Things like Crashing Wave and Unseasonable Squall deal Bludgeoning damage.
Where as Snow ball deals Cold, and most Electrical spells like Lightning Bolt don't even have the Air or Water trait.So this will confuse people used to the assumptions of other editions. It is actually a small list of most water spells that this Tempest benefit applies to.