Tiny creatures inhabiting and / or immobilizing small or medium creatures


Rules Questions


Very much as the tin reads.
I would like to get an official ruling on whether or not if a spell or something that allows you to make use of tiny creatures, like squirrels or the like, would thus immobilize or make it impossible for a small or medium-sized creature to move out of its own square when said tiny creature has to enter their square to be able to reach them with an attack.


Ah ... the tin doesn't read very well.

Are you asking if a Tiny creature can stop a medium/small creature from leaving their square?

You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.
Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy.

So yes your tiny creatures could take AoOs as enemies leave. They could use those AoOs to trip enemies, or use some other ability that stops them leaving.

Grappling an enemy would also prevent them from leaving.

Liberty's Edge

Tiny creatures using CMB against small or medium creatures ... they would require a high BAB to have a chance.


This is to further explain the tin. (Group member)

PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 193 wrote:
Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

Very Small Creature is the ability that allows tiny creatures to function with their lack of reach and not get shoved to the next square over at the end of their turn. As it is a specific ability, it overrides the general rules below.

PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 193 wrote:
Opponent: You can’t move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.
PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 193 wrote:
Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller: Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself. A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is. Creatures moving through squares occupied by other creatures provoke attacks of opportunity from those creatures

Tiny is one to two sizes too large for the second ruling to take effect for medium and small creatures. Medium creatures can step over Diminutive creatures while Small can step over Fine.

Our concern is: Using V.S.C, a tiny creature moves into a square to attack and occupy an opponent's square using their ability. Once it gets to the medium creature's turn, would they be unable to leave the square? The medium creature can't move in any direction without first taking 5ft to move through their starting square, which is currently occupied.


Oh right.

"Through" does not equal "Out of".

So no, riny creatures don't immobilize medium sized enemies just by ending their turn in an enemy's space.

Under usual circumstances a medium sized creature can leave the space they start in with no penalty. This does of course provoke an Attack of Opportunity from any creature threatening that square - including any tiny creatures who occupy said square.


While the grid may be 5ft and everything within it is an amorphous fleshcube not directly pinned down as being where within that space, the tiny creature is only 2.5x2.5ft in size meaning that they should be essentially in a corner of the small/medium creature's square, and moving forward in either of those two direction should be considered as stepping through the tiny creature, but stepping away would be the same as if the tiny creature were small and the medium creature were large and the large creature stepped back.

Maybe RAW doesn't explain this because Paizo is bad at explaining the grid, but scaling wise, that is most certainly the RAI I have seen everyone I have ever played with run.

Liberty's Edge

Bo'Galth The Green wrote:


Our concern is: Using V.S.C, a tiny creature moves into a square to attack and occupy an opponent's square using their ability. Once it gets to the medium creature's turn, would they be unable to leave the square? The medium creature can't move in any direction without first taking 5ft to move through their starting square, which is currently occupied.

You don't spend movement to move through your own square (or squares, if you are large or larger). You spend movement to entering new squares.


if you apply the Undead template & ghoul to a squirrel you'll have something that can paralyze a bigger creature, probably Squirrel ghoul CR 1-2.

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