How to grapple larger creatures...

[Selvaxri]

So, in PFS i have a grippli that likes to grapple. his schtick is- he isn't a tetori monk.
Recently there was the question of size relativity vs grappling- could a medium creature grapple a huge or larger creature; or could a large creature grapple a tiny creature. It makes sense for the former to be difficult, but grapple rules are really vague.

So to avoid any rules lawyering, i'm looking for ways for creatures to grapple other creatures they normally couldn't, due to size.

[Jeff Morse]

Size doesn't stop you from trying to grapple only grab

[Wonderstell]

Grapple doesn't have any size restriction.

A squirrel can grapple Cthulhu.

A gnome can pin a dragon.

But you can't Bull Rush, Overrun, Reposition or Trip anything two sizes larger than you.

[Selvaxri]

My friend would argue over how such actions would be feasible. How could a 2-ft-nothing frogman hinder a larger creature with grappling, since he argues that Grappling imparts a condition- how would something that is five times larger be restricted by a smaller grappler.

[Evilserran]

Ever see a grown man being pinched by a blue carb? spider crab? walk into a wolfspider's nest? Ever been bit and held onto by a parakeet? It may not be the same as having braun strowman on top of you, but it makes you ever bit as unable to battle for a little bit. There is also the form of grappling that involved simple join manipulation, if hes the size of you leg, then he can still torque your foot or knee, he can still get up behind you and full nelson your butt.

[avr]

Yeah, but there are monsters larger than that grippli by larger multiples than size of leg/size of person, with natural armor which should shrug off parakeet-type attacks.

By RAW it works. It is a rules hole IMO however.

[Selvaxri]

The question came up when a Chupacabra tried to grab the cavalier's horse with his bite attack.

Well, its good to know that there's no size restriction on grappling- my Grippli has grappled a Cyclops and a Fire Drake- only on the Grab attack and other combat maneuvers.

[Ferious Thune]

The thing to remember is that "grappling" in Pathfinder just means that you've got hold of someone. It doesn't mean that you have them in a wrestling-type hold. You might just have hold of their arm or leg or something.

[avr]

It does mean that the target has the grappled condition with all its penalties, and that another successful grapple check will pin the target, and two more (less for some characters) will let the grappler tie the target up.

It may not be a wrestling-type hold but it's just as effective.

[Grandlounge]

I was asked this by a GM.

I said that's easy. I grab the right wing and wrap it around the right side of the body and horizontally through the dragons mouth pinning the dragons right arm up against it's a head. I step on its left foot, and hold its tail with my right arm using my small size to force it into a tremendously painful back bend.

[BlarkNipnar]

A) IMO, if you can pass the check -> seems fine. Look below, however, as typically a player says "I want to do X" and then the GM says "Roll a blah check." Saying "I want to grapple the dragon" has issues.

B) GrandLounge points out that there are jujitzu (sp) ways of doing things. Consider watching some MMA or Jujitzu instructional vids to come up with neat "animations" for what you're doing. Everyone will benefit from this; while leaning on just A will result in breaking everyone's immersion.

[Grandlounge]

^This was a good guess. It was based on getting cloaked out by my Gi early in training.

[blahpers]

Grandlounge wrote:

I was asked this by a GM.

I said that's easy. I grab the right wing and wrap it around the right side of the body and horizontally through the dragons mouth pinning the dragons right arm up against it's a head. I step on its left foot, and hold its tail with my right arm using my small size to force it into a tremendously painful back bend.

That's an impressive amount of leaping about for under six seconds. You still get a move action, too!

[Grandlounge]

You only do half the moving. Half of grappling is controlling the position of you opponents. When you lock someones arm around their back you don't run 180 degrees. Also when you have air walk is way less than the 60ft I can move in that round.