Hello brains trust.
I love Automatic Bonus Progression but I have two problems with magic item cost in with ABP.
1. Buying Magic Items with ABP
In 1e, the attack bonus, armor bonus and profiency bonus of all magic items was clear. 1,000gp for +1 armor, 4,000gp for +2 armor, 2,000gp for +1 weapon, 2,500gp for +1 skill bonus etc.
In 1e, using the 1e ABP, if the PCs found a +1 flaming longsword, I would price it at 6,000gp (the regular 8,000gp minus the 2,000gp for a +1 weapon - whether or not that was RAW correct it doesn't matter - it seemed to work out).
I can't find an equivalent pricing for 2e.
If my PC wants to buy boots of bounding for the extra 5ft movement, what does it cost? The PC can't utilize the +2 item bonus for high and long jumps, so what discount should be applied?
Is there an official answer? (edit) Do I use Table 4-16 from the GMG? (/edit)
My current plan is just to let potency and item bonus both exist, though not stack. Therefore the PC just pays the full price for the item, but won't get double the bonus. The problem is it encourages the PC to buy magic items in skills other than the ones they get potency for (but is that actually a problem?).
2. Creating PCs above 1st level with ABP
What do I do to adjust table 10-10 to account for ABP? I couldn't find an official answer.
OPTION 1 Make no changes. With this option, all magic items are the same price and potency and item bonus both exist but do not stack. But the PC will have more "stuff" because they'll get their weapon and armor bonuses through ABP and get to spend all their gold on other magic items.
OPTION 2 Reduce the number of permanent items allowed in Table 10-10. But by how much? At level 12, a PC should get a +2 great striking weapon (LV 12) and a +2 resilient set of armor (LV 11) through ABP. But table 10-10 doesn't even allow a 12th level PC to have a LV 12 magic weapon yet. So what do I reduce the table to?
OPTION 3 Reduce the lump sum gold allow in table 10-10. But by how much? Using the same level 12 example as option 2, the +2 great striking weapon (LV 12) and +2 resilient set of armor (LV 11) are a total of 3,400gp. But how much is +1 to all Perception checks worth? How much is a flat +1 or +2 to a skill worth? This links back to the first topic above on buying magic items. (edit) Again, should I use Table 4-16 from the GMG? (/edit)
Hoping for some good advice or solutions that have seen play - or even an official rule I've missed.
Thanks!
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I did the spreadsheet on this a while back. Halve their gold, gives you an approximately correct value for ABP.
Item bonuses - +1 skill is approx 50, +2 is approx 600 and +3 is weird but approx 12000. (50 for +1 item is confirmed right - compare regular tools to their expanded/superb variety, the other two are my guesses).
Magic weapons and armor use the fundamental rune prices - just remove those.
My current plan is just to let potency and item bonus both exist, though not stack. Therefore the PC just pays the full price for the item, but won't get double the bonus. The problem is it encourages the PC to buy magic items in skills other than the ones they get potency for (but is that actually a problem?).
I haven't looked in to the cost distribution problem, but when I read this I saw the same problem that you pointed out. Even if the bonuses don't stack in the same skill, the players can still double-dip. Getting one skill bonus from ABP for free and paying gold for the others with equipment.
Having different characters with different rules is also a problem because then it becomes impossible to distribute wealth/treasure correctly. The characters using ABP will have extra money that then can be put towards buying equipment for the characters that are using magical items.
What would work is using only parts of ABP. Use ABP for weapon and armor runes, but not for the skill boosts. Use equipment for that. Since runes are purchased separately and then applied to equipment, removing the correct value from the treasure awards and from the cost of pre-combined items is much more straightforward.
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What would work is using only parts of ABP. Use ABP for weapon and armor runes, but not for the skill boosts. Use equipment for that. Since runes are purchased separately and then applied to equipment, removing the correct value from the treasure awards and from the cost of pre-combined items is much more straightforward.
Definitely what I'd do.
I've found that APB gives better equipment than the normal progression. Having all the skills and Perception bonuses costs just way more than you can afford normally.
My current plan is just to let potency and item bonus both exist, though not stack. Therefore the PC just pays the full price for the item, but won't get double the bonus. The problem is it encourages the PC to buy magic items in skills other than the ones they get potency for (but is that actually a problem?).I haven't looked in to the cost distribution problem, but when I read this I saw the same problem that you pointed out. Even if the bonuses don't stack in the same skill, the players can still double-dip. Getting one skill bonus from ABP for free and paying gold for the others with equipment.
Having different characters with different rules is also a problem because then it becomes impossible to distribute wealth/treasure correctly. The characters using ABP will have extra money that then can be put towards buying equipment for the characters that are using magical items.
What would work is using only parts of ABP. Use ABP for weapon and armor runes, but not for the skill boosts. Use equipment for that. Since runes are purchased separately and then applied to equipment, removing the correct value from the treasure awards and from the cost of pre-combined items is much more straightforward.
ABP isn't intended to allow bonus granting items to exist at all, or to be used for only some of the PCs in a game, so of course it will have problems if you do that, in the same way that you will have problems if you run a dual class game but have one PC who isn't dual class, or if you run a normal game but decide that one of the PCs doesn't have ability scores.