Voluntarily failing a save


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

This was obviously something you could do in first edition, but the only support I can find for it in the RAW text of 2E is in the rules for Drugs under Afflictions, which doesn't specify whether one can voluntarily critical fail.

This came up in a recent discussion about the Blister spell, which, if cast on an acid resistant summons or ally with the ability to critically fail, becomes a potentially devastating AOE spell for its level.


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I wouldn't exactly call that support. It specifically says you're allowed to do something. If that was already the case, then why would they need to say that? If anything, I'd say the fact that it's mentioned in a specific ability is evidence to the contrary. Moreover, there are no mentions of voluntarily failing in the rules on saving throws.

There are a few things in the game that let you voluntarily fail a check, such as the fighter's press-trait attacks and the initial save on drugs. In these cases it is explicitly mentioned. The game doesn't mention everything you can't do, nor does it assume you've played PF1 before. It attempts to be sufficient in explaining the rules and what you can do, and it makes no mention of voluntarily failing, much less critically failing a save. If you want to allow a voluntary fail as a GM, then go for it, but RAW makes no mention of it, and it is therefore impossible. I'd also be wary of allowing it exactly because of that kind of interaction. Even if that specific interaction isn't OP (I don't know if it is or not, I haven't thought about it), there could be other spells that neither of us have thought about where it would be OP.

P.S. Kind of irrelevant from a rules perspective, but from a flavor perspective, how exactly are you purposely failing a fortitude save? Reflex and Wil a I could kind of understand, but fortitude would mean somehow making your body more susceptible to what's affecting it. How exactly would one will that to happen?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You can't find a rule saying that you can voluntarily fail or crit fail saves in general because that rule does not exist.


There won't be any guidance on this, most likely, since usually you want to succeed at your saves and the rules cover that case.
What I would do in such a case is evaluate the situation: is it a case where it makes sense to force a failure (like choosing not to avoid a fireball), or is the player trying to game the system in order to obtain an advantage (like with the Blister spell you mentioned)?
Also, voluntarily failing a Reflex save, and sometimes a Will one, is usually easier to justify than with Fortitude, which is often something that your body does on its own.


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Drugs say you can voluntarily fail the saves, so I would assume the baseline is that you can't.

Liberty's Edge

Nobody who is provided for a Saving Throw can ever choose to "not roll" or otherwise "take a failure/crit failure" unless the specific ability/effect/equipment/feature that is being used indicates that is possible.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I don't even know that I'd go so far as to say "never" (since there are always unexpected edge cases), but deciding that something is enough of an unusual case to actually allow a deliberately failed save (while remembering that even unconscious people and inanimate objects make saves) is solidly the GM's call, not something the players can assume and fall back on without GM intervention.


Guntermench wrote:
Drugs say you can voluntarily fail the saves, so I would assume the baseline is that you can't.

To build off of this, I agree with Guntermench and here's why: The drug trait specifically calls out allowing you to voluntarily fail your initial save, but nothing else. If you could always voluntarily fail all saving throws, you have a situation where a level 20 character can polish off a beer and be permanently drunk for the rest of their life as alcohol has no maximum duration and they can keep failing their save to keep that bonus versus fear.


RAW I would agree that you generally can not choose to fail a save. Mostly because of the fact that unconscious characters still make reflex saves.

That being said, if it is useful from a narrative point, it would be reasonable to allow deliberate failing of saves. The rules exist mostly to provide structure to what one character can do to a character controlled by another player (including the GM's NPC characters).

So, for example, if the players are talking with a particularly obnoxious NPC that the GM is playing, and one of the players says that their character wants to punch this NPC. The GM is fully justified in calling for initiative and/or an attack roll. However, the GM can also simply decide that they like the direction the story is going and simply allow the player character to succeed at the punch - effectively voluntarily failing at their defense options. The same could be done with a spell that uses a saving throw.

But this should always be decided by the player whose character is being affected. In the case of casting Blister on a willing ally in order to cause an AOE attack it could easily be considered that the characters most affected would be the enemies being attacked by the popped blisters. So then the controller of those characters would be the ones who should be consulted on whether this ally has to roll the save against the spell or not.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

There's actually a sidebar in Bestiary 3 that explicitly mentions wanting to be hit, not avoid, try to fail a save, etc.

Page: 114 - Gliminal
'There aren’t default rules for a creature choosing to be hit (to avoid exploding from a gliminal’s healing), but you can allow an ally to improve
their outcome by one degree of success against a willing target or allow the target to worsen the result of their saving throw by one step.'

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