Permanent Image - hiding Wakanda


Rules Questions


I was thinking of many castings of a spell like Permanent Image to hide a town like they did with Wakanda in Black Panther.

Would an Illusion (figment) block actual sunlight from passing through it? Would the hidden area under an illusiory hillside or mountain be in darkness or shade?

Granted, residents could interract with it and see through it, but what about plants and livestock?


Permanent image is based on silent image, and silent image creates a single object. I don't think either give the ability to mask something's existence. You could fill a valley with an illusionary lake or something I suppose.

The spells "screen" and "village veil" do what you're looking to do though.


I think an illusory wall blocks light (or it would be pointless - this does get disputed though by those on the 'it's pointless' side), so yeah an illusion of a mountain above you would mess up agriculture.

Besides Erich's suggestions note lost locale/lost passage as spells which can hide places effectively. They would require Samsarans involved or spell research to recreate them, true.

Liberty's Edge

avr wrote:

I think an illusory wall blocks light (or it would be pointless - this does get disputed though by those on the 'it's pointless' side), so yeah an illusion of a mountain above you would mess up agriculture.

Besides Erich's suggestions note lost locale/lost passage as spells which can hide places effectively. They would require Samsarans involved or spell research to recreate them, true.

AoN wrote:

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief ): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

I wouldn't have the illusion block the light, but a creature not making the save will think that there is some mysterious sourceless light, not a person with a light source hiding behind an illusion.

Invisibility is a glamour and not a figment, but I think it reinforces that interpretation with this text:

AoN-Invisibility wrote:
tems dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.

So to reply to Zombie Lord question, I think light will pass, albeit a bit reduced or distorted by the translucent image left behind by the disbelieved illusion.

Note that objects are immune to illusions and that normal plants aren't exactly treated as creatures, so probably aren't subject to illusions. I wouldn't feel anything amiss about a tree growing through an illusionary wall without any care for the illusion.


It could also be interpreted as "magic" ergo you are still hit by the light (meaning plants aren't affected) but your mind just disregards that fact because the mountain looks soooo real man....

And you auto disbelieve your own illusions and get a +4 and an automatic (re)save if someone (say your mom who knows about the illusion over your village) tells you about it for the first time. So you could see the light outside your semi-transparent illusion.

I actually once used a silent image spell as a disguise self spell by simply setting out the area of effect ahead of me, made an illusion of (the shell of) a guard but around myself and concentration slow walked my way through. They didn't even interact with the guard to get a chance to disbelieve and it was a big enough place that plenty of guards they don't know come and go all the time.

Illusion magic is not useless in the right hands, and the smarter the hands, the better the magic.


Thank you all for the feedback.

I liked that permanent image had a permanent duration. It might take a while, but with enough castings a large area can be blanketed.

The other spells mentioned either had duration limitations that would make it hard to cover a large area or a permanency cost that would quickly add up.

Diego, thank you for the light info. That makes sense.

If a village could make agriculture work under their dome, I think it's feasible to hide an entire village. Other forms of earthworks and dense bramble hedges could keep wandering animals at bay.

Residents could all be made aware of the illusion protecting them so it appears translucent. A normal sky outside could look strange to a resident leaving the area... probably something similar outsiders from a different realm, or subterranean folks visiting the surface.

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