Can a dwarf druid wildshaped into a bear still see in the dark?
The animal form spell specifies "Low-light vision and imprecise scent 30 feet."
Do you view one of the "special statistics" of the bear as their sensory package as a whole, or as a each particular sense?
Quite subjective. No direct answer in the rules.
I allow it on the basis that is it not explicitly disallowed, and the battle forms talk about "gaining" these abilities.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eh, I wouldn't allow it. If wildshape gives you the senses of the animal you turn into, I don't think that you can still use the ones granted by your ancestry.
Can a dwarf druid wildshaped into a bear still see in the dark?
They sure can... It requires them to take a Darkvision Elixir or cast Darkvision first though. ;)
Thinking about it seriously though... It's iffy. There isn't anything specifically to stop it but it slides you down a slippery slope if you do. Does your tiefling druid keep their skillful tail and Relentless Wings while changed into a bear? Does an Azarketi one still breathe underwater and have a swim speed? Can someone pull off a fruit from a Fruit Leshy in animal form? Does the Gourd Leshy make an animal with a hollow skull? [actually most of the leshy heritages have these questions]. So technically I don't see a reason the game prevents it but I can see some reasons a DM might.
Can a dwarf druid wildshaped into a bear still see in the dark?They sure can... It requires them to take a Darkvision Elixir or cast Darkvision first though. ;)
Thinking about it seriously though... It's iffy. There isn't anything specifically to stop it but it slides you down a slippery slope if you do. Does your tiefling druid keep their skillful tail and Relentless Wings while changed into a bear? Does an Azarketi one still breathe underwater and have a swim speed? Can someone pull off a fruit from a Fruit Leshy in animal form? Does the Gourd Leshy make an animal with a hollow skull? [actually most of the leshy heritages have these questions]. So technically I don't see a reason the game prevents it but I can see some reasons a DM might.
Just my opinion
Keep the tail and wings, but the wings don’t work in animal form (without aerial form to supplement). The tail is a purchased feature and probably(?) won’t interfere in any game balance. The wings are purchased too, but there are specific rules limiting flight in battle forms that block allowing the character to use them without the added feature.
The Azarketi would have to be a blanket no as there already are underwater battle forms to use.
I have no idea how to adjudicate leshys (leshies?) regarding battle forms outside of not having to worry as none of my players have any interest in being plants. That said, my first thought is to say no unless it’s via wild shape and the player has form control. Why? It’s just a personal justification indicating a minimum level and investment that I can also use to make minor modifications make sense.
In regards to darkvision, I know my players would be perturbed if I downgraded their vision in animal form. That said, I don’t believe darkvision overrules low-light vision and, therefore, would be replaced by the new form’s vision per RaW. Sadly, the character would be low-light in animal while darkvision in standard form. This is a rule I would ignore.
You are replacing your dwarven eyes with bear eyes, so you don't keep the benefits of your dwarven eyes. No one would be complaining about losing a Tail attack of an Iruxi when shifting to a bear, so why complain about losing other physical features?
Yes its just a matter of perpective. Its clearly not a complete change as you still think mostly like a druid not a bear.
Clearly if the new form does not have the body part at all, then your GM is going to say you can't have that ability. But you do have eyes and your training while in bear form.
What about a Whisper Elf's finely tuned ears?
Exactly what parts of your ancestry is physiological and which is training and culture? Some of it is just not unclear. Other games have drawn the line at special senses. But many others don't.
I would much prefer better guidance in the battleform rules.
You are replacing your dwarven eyes with bear eyes, so you don't keep the benefits of your dwarven eyes. No one would be complaining about losing a Tail attack of an Iruxi when shifting to a bear, so why complain about losing other physical features?
Funny, I don't recall seeing a rule that said darkvision had anything to do with eyes. It's not like it works anything like infravision, nightvision, or anything remotely like real life visual senses/organs in any event.
Even many undead such as skeletons, who have no working organs whatsoever, still have darkvision.
What would happen to someone missing a limb that shifts into an animal? Or maybe if they were just missing an ear or eye? What if the character is naturally blind?
Unless there is a rule somewhere I’ve overlooked, I think all these decisions just become GM fiat to whatever works for the game.
Funny, I don't recall seeing a rule that said darkvision had anything to do with eyes. It's not like it works anything like infravision, nightvision, or anything remotely like real life visual senses/organs in any event.
Even many undead such as skeletons, who have no working organs whatsoever, still have darkvision.
There are several spells and items, like Weeping Midnight, Blindpepper Bomb or Scouring Sand that mentions getting things into your eyes causing Blindness: so unless you don't think lowlight vision and darkvision are forms of vision immune to blindness...
What would happen to someone missing a limb that shifts into an animal? Or maybe if they were just missing an ear or eye? What if the character is naturally blind?
They gain what the spell says they gain: the stats are the same which means it can see just fine [Low-light vision and imprecise scent 30 feet] and move just fine [Bear Speed 30 feet]. There is also this: "polymorph spells don’t allow the target to take on the appearance of a specific individual creature, but rather just a generic creature of a general type or ancestry" so you'll get an average bear form and the average bear isn't going to be missing an ear, eye or limb.
What would happen to someone missing a limb that shifts into an animal? Or maybe if they were just missing an ear or eye? What if the character is naturally blind?They gain what the spell says they gain: the stats are the same which means it can see just fine [Low-light vision and imprecise scent 30 feet] and move just fine [Bear Speed 30 feet]. There is also this: "polymorph spells don’t allow the target to take on the appearance of a specific individual creature, but rather just a generic creature of a general type or ancestry" so you'll get an average bear form and the average bear isn't going to be missing an ear, eye or limb.
That seems a fair enough interpretation to me. Although, keeping certain physical traits that don’t affect mechanics (like the missing ear) can be fun for concept.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
keeping certain physical traits that don’t affect mechanics (like the missing ear) can be fun for concept.
It could be interesting by allowing creatures in other forms be identifiable as transformed and possibly as to which individual it is.
There is also this: "polymorph spells don’t allow the target to take on the appearance of a specific individual creature, but rather just a generic creature of a general type or ancestry" so you'll get an average bear form and the average bear isn't going to be missing an ear, eye or limb.
Yes, but would you be smarter than the average bear?
There is also this: "polymorph spells don’t allow the target to take on the appearance of a specific individual creature, but rather just a generic creature of a general type or ancestry" so you'll get an average bear form and the average bear isn't going to be missing an ear, eye or limb.Yes, but would you be smarter than the average bear?
Not if you're talking about my players.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There is also this: "polymorph spells don’t allow the target to take on the appearance of a specific individual creature, but rather just a generic creature of a general type or ancestry" so you'll get an average bear form and the average bear isn't going to be missing an ear, eye or limb.Yes, but would you be smarter than the average bear?
Only if you're a Rogue w/ a small bear as an Animal Companion...who's Awakened. Or something.
OMG, I could see a Druid doing this. Take Thievery (for those picnic baskets), and get a small bear and the ability to speak with it. Do vaudeville dialogues that the other players only understand half of.
Write up a backstory w/ an enemy Ranger (who's Good, not a mortal enemy).
It takes time to get to where you're perpetually a bear, and being a bear won't actually be that great, but the comic value.
Perhaps best for a one-shot/silly campaign.
lol