Tiefling Oversized Limbs Confusion

[JamesMan]

The Tiefling variant wrote:

"You have oversized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty."

There have been a few discussions about this ability, but i'm a bit confused as to how it works and by the look of the threads i've seen so were others. What are the most "official" readings of how this ability works, specifically in regards to these questions:

1: Does this let a medium sized tiefling wield a large greataxe? Or just a large one-handed weapon in two hands without penalty? (A or B)

2: Does this let a small tiefling wield a large greataxe, a medium greataxe, a large one-handed weapon in two hands without penalty or a medium one-handed weapon in two hands without penalty? (A, B, C or D)

3: If the tiefling is a Titan Mauler or a Titan Fighter do the class abilities overlap with this trait, do they apply to weapons the next size up (Huge Sized), or something else? (A, B or C)

4: If the tiefling is affected by something that increases their size (such as a version of an enlarge person effect that works for tieflings), do they still ignore penalties with the resized weapon or not? (A or B)

Any staff quotes, faqs I've missed or anything official that relates to these questions will help a lot to support your opinions. I know its just a small ability in a supplement product but I'd like to run it properly. I'd accept author intent too if anyone has it.

[VoodooMonkey]

Since Variant Tiefling Abilities aren't PFS legal, the I would think that most, if not all would depend on how the GM rules it for their specific arenas.

My VERY uneducated opinions:

1. I would say A: both of his/her hands are large so there should be nothing stopping them from using a large two-handed weapon- I don't see it preventing them from using a large one-handed weapon in both hands per normal one-handed rules though

2. Small Tieflings give we the Willies so I am going to avoid this question

3. A lot depends on what the GM defines as "an appropriately sized weapon" or "a weapon intended for creatures one size category larger" means since your size category does not change-but I would think they could/should redefine it to fit the parameters of the unique situation. Thou, I think there should be some penalty due to the "practicality" of a medium-sized creature wielding a huge weapon-case in point: the -4 penalty imposed on firing the Gastraphetes without proper support.

4. I believe that if the weapon is on your person scale with you...

Enlarge Person: All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size.

Once again, I believe it would matter how your GM interprets it.

[vhok]

the only thing it does is remove the -2 atk penalty

1: Does this let a medium sized tiefling wield a large greataxe? Or just a large one-handed weapon in two hands without penalty? (A or B) B

2: Does this let a small tiefling wield a large greataxe, a medium greataxe, a large one-handed weapon in two hands without penalty or a medium one-handed weapon in two hands without penalty? (A, B, C or D) small tieflings didnt exist at the time of this writing they were always medium. RAW large, however RAI screams it would only allow you to use medium and most people can read it and understand that so expect DM's to say medium for a small tiefling.

3: If the tiefling is a Titan Mauler or a Titan Fighter do the class abilities overlap with this trait, do they apply to weapons the next size up (Huge Sized), or something else? (A, B or C) none of the above, it would reduce the ATK penalty for wielding the large weapons, its only supposed to reduce the penalty by -2 as that was the intent so DM might say thats all it helps with. titan mauler using 2h large weapons in 1 hand is still not allowed normally even for large creatures so i don't think it should help with the penalty for that myself.

4: If the tiefling is affected by something that increases their size (such as a version of an enlarge person effect that works for tieflings), do they still ignore penalties with the resized weapon or not? (A or B) if they drop the weapon and pick it back up the weapon would be large, as their hands are now meant for huge you would take a -2 ATK for undersized weapons. if you keep hold of the weapon it grows with you to huge size, which your hands are also now huge so no changes.

[JamesMan]

Answering my own post here but after thoroughly going through a lot of threads on the subject i think the answers are:

1: B. It just lets you ignore the inappropriately sized weapon penalty, it doesn't change your capabilities.

2: D. Intent was to ignore inappropriately sized weapon penalty for the size above you, but small sized tieflings hadn't yet been introduced.

3:C. It allows you to ignore the inappropriately sized weapon penalty, that means different things for each archetype. For titan fighter, their -2 penalty to attack rolls is applied directly to attack rolls and is not part of the inappropriately sized weapon penalty, it is separate, so you'd only ignore -2. For titan mauler, their ability specifically increases the inappropriately sized weapon penalty by 4, which by RAW would mean you'd ignore that too. This is in line with the threads i've read concerning the "giant-blooded" trait and its interaction with these two abilities. It is however quite strong synergy for the barbarian and DMs may choose to houserule it giving a lesser benefit.

4: A. Intent is when the weapon grows with you, you still ignore the inappropriately sized weapon penalty of the weapon as it is still one size larger than you.

That sums up as much as I can compile from the scattered threads.

[Derklord]

To clarify the terminology: The ability is what the rules call a "racial trait". It has nothing to do with the two traits that you can select (race specific ones for that are called "race traits").

The CRB says this: "Penalty: Penalties are numerical values that are subtracted from a check or statistical score." CRB pg. 12 This means that the rules on handedness and what you're allowed to wield are unaffected, as they aren't numerical values and thus not regarded as "penalties".
RAW, the trait only ever applies to large weapons. I presume RAI it affects "weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than the wielder", I've included answers for this RAI in blue text.
It's not super strict RAW, but the rules are, without any doubt, written with the term "without penalty" only referring to one specific penalty, in this case the penalty for wielding an improperly sized weapon (-2 per differing size category). Any other interpretation breaks the game and thus shouldn't be entertained or discussed.

Normally, there are three option for using oversized weapons:
1) One-handed weapon +1 size as two-handed, -2 penalty.
2) Light weapon +1 size as one-handed, -2 penalty.
3) Light weapon +2 size as two-handed, -4 penalty.
Titan Fighter offer a forth option:
4a) Two-handed weapon +1 size as two-handed, -2 penalty (plus a -2 penalty that's not affected by the racial trait).
Titan Mauler Barbarian offers a different forth option:
4b) Two-handed weapon +1 size as two-handed, -6 penalty.

In answer to your questions, in order:
• For a medium tiefling, the racial trait removes penalty for options 1 and 2.
• For a small tiefling, the racial trait removes penalty for option 3. RAI it instead removes penalties for options 1 and 2.
• For a medium tiefling, the racial traits removes the penalties for options 4a and 4b. A small tiefling using the respective class features can't profit form the racial trait. RAI for a small tiefling, the racial trait removes the penalties for options 4a and 4b.
• All the above is true for the current size of character and weapon regardless of how either came to be, so size changes can make a character gain or lose benefitting from the racial trait. Large or bigger creatures can't benefit trom the racial trait at all. RAI, the traits removes the -2 penalty for options 1 and 2 and possible 4a and 4b regardless of the character's size.

[JamesMan]

Thank you for the thorough explanation and breakdown.

Confusion all cleared up.