Hide and Sneak both have the Secret trait. Why is is that Avoid Notice (ostensibly the same act) does not?
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You attempt a Stealth check to avoid notice while traveling at half speed. If you have the Swift Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed rather than half, but you still can’t use another exploration activity while you do so. If you have the Legendary Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed and use a second exploration activity. If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results).
The text doesn't mention rolling anything until you roll Stealth for initiative. That shouldn't be secret for obvious reasons. The question is how do you go from Avoid Notice to Encounter Mode?
*shrug* That tags really doesn't mean anything...
"The GM can choose to make any check secret, even if it’s not usually rolled secretly. Conversely, the GM can let you roll any check yourself, even if that check would usually be secret. Some groups find it simpler to have players roll all secret checks and just try to avoid acting on any out-of-character knowledge, while others enjoy the mystery.": So the rules come out and say 'feel free to do whatever you want with secret rolls'.
As to why? I'd say they didn't add it as exploration mode as it's not running things per round but in minutes, hours or days: in essence you're rolling every round but what Dm is rolling every round of exploration? It seems like they boiled it down simply to a non-secret roll for initiative is an encounter happens: once the encounter happens then you aren't using Avoid Notice anymore. Zit's just getting you a free Sneak roll at the start of an encounter like Defend gets you a free Raise Shield along with using sneak for initiative.
"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results).": Note, the free roll is "to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak". Sneak has the secret trait, and you're rolling Sneak as you are not in an Encounter.
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Pretty sure that "attempt a Stealth check" doesn't not involve rolling dice, guys.
While one of the benefits of Avoid Notice is to roll Stealth for Initiative, it's also definitely intended to be used to sneak past creatures without, you know, being noticed - pardon my sarcasm. Which would not involve being in combat.
So it is certainly odd that it doesn't have the Secret trait; I've been running it as though it does (which of course technically is RAW as Graystone mentions).
Pretty sure that "attempt a Stealth check" doesn't not involve rolling dice, guys.
While one of the benefits of Avoid Notice is to roll Stealth for Initiative, it's also definitely intended to be used to sneak past creatures without, you know, being noticed - pardon my sarcasm. Which would not involve being in combat.
If you are close enough to try to "sneak past creatures without, you know, being noticed", your in an encounter: encounter mode doesn't mean you're in actual combat, just that you're running the game in rounds. You could be in an encounter and just sneak and hide.
EDIT: Got ninja'd ;)
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It seems pretty obvious to me that "attempt a Stealth check" has to mean rolling dice; I'm not aware of any other place in the rules where a "check" is called for that doesn't involve a dice roll.
I also don't see anything in the rules that imply that you have to be in encounter mode to sneak past creatures.
On the contrary, it makes much more logical sense that Avoid Notice is the exploration equivalent of Sneak.
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It seems pretty obvious to me that "attempt a Stealth check" has to mean rolling dice
If so, how often do you roll? What distance away? How do you figure out cover at the end of each round if you aren't running it in encounter mode and using rounds?
I also don't see anything in the rules that imply that you have to be in encounter mode to sneak past creatures.
Conversely, I'm not seeing anything that explains how it works when you roll for a per round ability without entering encounter mode.
On the contrary, it makes much more logical sense that Avoid Notice is the exploration equivalent of Sneak.
If so, it fails on every level to explain itself for anything other than what happens when you do enter encounter mode.
It seems pretty obvious to me that "attempt a Stealth check" has to mean rolling dice; I'm not aware of any other place in the rules where a "check" is called for that doesn't involve a dice roll.
I also don't see anything in the rules that imply that you have to be in encounter mode to sneak past creatures.
On the contrary, it makes much more logical sense that Avoid Notice is the exploration equivalent of Sneak.
Yeah, it is like Search is to Seek. You roll once and use that result for the when it matters.
Yeah, it is like Search is to Seek. You roll once and use that result for the when it matters.That's not how Search works.
No roll is made until there's actually something to roll against, because the rules say "If you come across a secret door, item, or hazard while Searching, the GM will attempt a free secret check to Seek to see if you notice the hidden object or hazard" (emphasis added).
Kinda, search usually has two seek checks as described
Easy library linkI mention this because I have seen quite a few people running all search activities as if it were one check that determined finding absolutely everything in a room.
I mention this because I have seen quite a few people running all search activities as if it were one check that determined finding absolutely everything in a room.
I've seen this, but I think it's more for ease of use and to speed things along than people thinking that that what they are meant to do.