Babau Tactics

[Zagig]

I've got 2 babau demons about to attack the party. 1 just cast darkness on its weapon, letting the party see the globe of darkness around it. Combat begins next game session. What are some good babau tactics?

[Smallfoot]

Zagig wrote:

I've got 2 babau demons about to attack the party. 1 just cast darkness on its weapon, letting the party see the globe of darkness around it. Combat begins next game session. What are some good babau tactics?

Flanking, obviously. Although they don't have Spellcraft, they should be able to guess which PCs are buffed (especially obvious buffs like Mirror Image or Blur) and toss a Dispel Magic at them. They may also use their greater teleport ability to place themselves more favorably, such as dropping into the back ranks to jump on a caster or ranged attacker.

[Ryze Kuja]

Right at the beginning of your next sesh, have both of them teleport away, and then make them "teleport hunt" the party for the first part of your session. This "teleport hunting" should be methodical, and patient, and devious. Have them teleport in, dispel, teleport out, teleport in to flank a straggler, poke poke, teleport away. Rinse, lather, repeat this until they're running on fumes, and then when they try to rest to regain spells, the Babaus finally mount a full attack from stealth.

^---- to make the "teleport hunt" portion of this somewhat "fair" for the PC's, the Babau do not have scrying or remote viewing, so when they *poof* *poof* *poof* everywhere, they're going to be doing it based on where they "think" the PC's are, and they'll teleport to a safe perimeter area before sneaking up and observing what the PC's are doing. So if the PC's do something sudden and unexpected with their positioning, there is a decent chance that the Babau might screw up one of their teleports and land right in the middle of the party and be vulnerable, even though his intention was to teleport several hundred yards away from the PC's as to sneak closer and monitor them.

Also, before each time they teleport in to attack/dispel, they cast Darkness on mundane rocks and carry them in their hand, then teleport in, they drop rocks as a Free Action on their turn before they start the poke poke or dispelling, and then teleport back out.

Babau are extremely patient killers, and will wait seemingly forever before they attack, waiting for the absolute perfect moment to strike.

[Pizza Lord]

Darkness will just lower the effective illumination of an area by one step (Bright>Normal>Dim>Darkness). Underground or inside a room with no windows, that will probably be darkness anyway, but the spell will keep non-magical lights (torches, lanterns, etc.) and magical ones of lower level (light, dancing lights, etc) from changing that. The babau have darkvision, so should be okay, but they should also know that any dwarves or half-orcs will be able to see them as well, so will likely focus on them unless there's a good reason otherwise (like, an obvious mage or a clear chance to sneak attack someone that can't see them). Anyone with an obvious good or cold iron weapon (which bypasses their DR) might also draw their concentrated focus.

Tactics might include the babau (one or both) in darkness attempting to summon an additional babau (40% chance) while the party cannot see it or the newcomer. The babau will likely use their longspears (most babau have those, though yours may be different), and keep targets at reach (they still threaten with their bites into adjacent squares), using teleport to flank, as Smallfoot suggested.

Two babau is roughly a CR 8 challenge, so your PCs probably have access to a magical light spell of 3rd level or higher, which will just negate the darkness. This might call for them using dispel magic to burn through the party's supply of such spells and other buffs.

You can also have the babau throw the darkness dagger at one target (leaving that area of darkness centered on the dagger, where it falls, likely in the target's square or next to it). Then recast the spell on itself or another easily dropped object (copper coins), though that will hurt its action efficiency.

Don't forget to check for their Protective Slime when hit by natural or unarmed attacks. Although it's useless against most weapons that a 6th-level party will try and hit them with, there is still a (very small) chance that they might damage a wooden-hafted weapon like a mace or battleaxe, which can grant it the broken condition and make it less effective.

[VoodistMonk]

I would imagine they would show up in flanking position and try rip a single player to shreds... teleporting away once the player is dead.

The party wouldn't know they are being hunted. There would be no cat and mouse games. Just pure and sudden violence. And they would follow the party, teleporting into flanking position and butchering them, one by one.

Any time either demon drops below half health, they both pop smoke and teleport away. Summon new ones to send after the party while they heal.

Now, that is not a fun encounter from the players' side of the table... but that is how I see a pair of these things actually attacking the party.

[Hugo Rune]

I think the encounter would have 3 phases. An unseen observation phase, a weaken the party phase and an assassination phase.

Starting with the end, the basic assumption is that the party will need to sleep and that is when they are at their most vulnerable. It can also be assumed that the party will have a number of safeguards and defences that should be stripped away first. So in the first stage the Babau would follow the party unobserved, gathering information about the party and their equipment. If the party encounters another encounter, they will stay hidden and observe.

Once they are discovered they will continue to observe but will now also interfere. Routinely dispelling magic, interrupting periods of sleep and rest but not engaging. They will also teleport in and steal items at any opportunity, potentially using any useful items against the party.

Eventually, the party will be spell-less, exhausted and without several significant items. At this point, if and when an opportunity arises for both Babau to strike a single isolated individual, they will do so.

[Mark Hoover 330]

NVM, I LOVE your character builds and I really respect your work, but in this instance, respectfully, no that's not the Babau's move.

On paper teleporting in and out of combat sounds awesome. Here's the mechanics:

Greater Teleport is a Standard and they can't take any other Standard the round they arrive, so even if Darkness is previously cast, the round the Babau appear they make no attacks by RAW.

You COULD rule that the combination of the Darkness and the sudden nature of arriving via Teleport means that their arrival is a Surprise round, with their 1 Standard being used up in the Surprise round by Greater Teleport. Whatever the ruling, the demons don't attack until the round after they arrive.

Babau have high initiative bonuses, but depending on the rolls the PCs may go first. They are suddenly in Darkness and caught unawares, but someone in the party may still be able to hit a Knowledge check on their initiative and analyze that they're dealing with demons that can GT at will.

If the Babau are identified and choose to press their attacks at this point, the PCs can Ready an action to attack one or both of them if they attempt to 'port back out. I don't know what counters this party has to Darkness but that may be the only thing that saves the demons' hides.

See, once they're detected this is 2 CR 6 monsters, covered in acidic slime, and having to work together in Flanking to try and maximize their damage. A smart party capable of getting around the Darkness somehow simply needs to move in such a way that a PC can't get Flanked and they've rendered one of the monsters' attack bonuses moot.

Again, if the PCs can't defeat the Darkness spell, the teleporting in and out of melee is great and keep doing it, but otherwise, think about the Babau's exit strategy. So they 'port in, realize somehow the PCs can work around the Darkness spell, and not liking their current odds the Babau move to exit via GT.

For one, they might risk an AoO if they do this in melee or within Reach from a PC's attacks. Then there might be a PC with a Readied action or some barbarian Rage power or Feat that allows them to trail after monsters that try to step out of melee.

For another, even if the Babau DO manage to step away if they "pop smoke" or otherwise cause some kind of diversion to conceal their escape, the Babau have just used the Standard they needed to save for Greater Teleport.

The best option for the Babau isn't to teleport OFFENSIVELY but as a utility or even DEFENSIVELY.

First thing, next game, the demons 'port out. They use their abilities to enter a nearby area of Cover or Concealment. Next they follow the PCs at half-speed, using Stealth and remaining within Visibility range for the Environment.

A Babau is DC 32 if it gets a 10 on Stealth. This is modified by Distance. Anytime the PCs start getting a bit far away, the demons 'port to a bit of Cover or Concealment close to the PCs.

Now, get creative. Do the Babau know the area? If not, just use some of the tactics Ryzzy Cujo mentioned upthread. If they DO know the area though...

1. They have Disable Device +11; can they jam any doors, sabotage any devices or trigger any traps in the area?

2. The demons do a combined 2d8 Acid if each individual D8 can make it through the Hardness of an item - they could ruin doors and release monsters in the party's midst, perhaps cause heavy objects to break away and fall from overhead, and so on.

3. Darkness at Will: port AHEAD of the party; cast Darkness on an unattended object; litter the floor with Caltrops or oil and ready a Tindertwig

As these demons are immune to Electricity, perhaps they can have bottled lightning in their gear. They have Resist Acid and Fire 10; maybe they just use darkness to conceal themselves standing in a pool of boiling Acid; they are immune to Poison, perhaps they're letting some inhaled poison smolder in a censor which is itself cloaked in darkness in the area.

The babau's melee attacks should come after they've exhausted every other way to pick on the PCs or you're just getting bored with petty torments. There IS the possibility, the longer you pester the characters, that their own die rolls and luck allows them to spot and target the babau. As much as possible, keep the demons at a distance from the party. If no one is around to threaten one with an AoO, then part of the risk of teleporting away to torment the party more later is removed.

[Mudfoot]

The babau also has competent (+11) acrobatics and climb, so can teleport into dark (Dark) places high up and then just jump down onto the party. A few thrown weapons wouldn't be unreasonable, if they're acid resistant. If spotted before they can attack, they just GT out.

Depending on how well they know the rest of the area, they might hit the PCs while they're already engaged with another obstacle or combat.

The fluff text suggests that they have some manner of signature murder technique or style. See what you can come up with to make them a bit more memorable.

[Zagig]

Thank you for all the suggestions everyone.

Life has been busy and I haven't had time to respond but I have been seriously thinking about what all of you suggested during the week.

Hunt/Hit and Run: The idea of a hunt kind of makes sense. In fact, the party is likely to set off a trap later, if they don't the babau will, that summons an elder fire elemental which would be a good time for the babau to full out attack. Their instructions are to attack anyone that reaches the babau location, which was at a covered stone bridge over a canal of molten gold.

Dispel Magic: They aren't likely to be using dispel magic very much due to the party composition (alchemist, fighter, kineticist, cleric) unless the cleric starts casting more than is typical but it's something I have to watch for, especially once the party sets off the summoning trap.

Darkness: They should get a lot of use out of darkness. The whole area, ruined city, that they are in is normally in dim light. They will know automatically that the dwarf has darkvision and a few attack rounds should tell them that the kineticist has limited darkvision. Its been mentioned that they could carry rocks with darkness cast on them but the spell only lasts 7 minutes so I will need to monitor this for any casting that the party might hear, if they have to cast after getting close to the party.

Summon: I think the babau will summon as soon as possible. The party will reach the entrance to the inner part of the city in about an hour at normal exploring pace. While the babau can teleport into the inner part of the city, their best odds are, I think, in the outer city so summoning right now makes sense.

Protective Slime: No effect on the magical weapons that will likely come into play for this. The kineticist has a longsword but she never does melee attacks.

So, this first attack will last a few rounds while they summon and assess the party strength and abilities. I plan to use their Acrobatics to keep 10 feet away and try to get AoOs. Flanking won't matter when they attack the alchemist or cleric, as both would be blinded in the darkness and I'm thinking that these two would be the first targets due to the marching order that has those two back to back on one side of the group, with the dwarf fighter and kineticist on the other side. Then, all 4 will teleport a little ways away, relying on Stealth to stay hidden, although the kineticist's +21 Perception makes being spotted a possibility. I could see 2 babau, with darkness on them, drawing the party to them while staying behind cover, allowing the other 2 to attack from the rear or side. That's only going to work once so they will have to come up with ever-changing tactics. Perhaps they could hide off to one side a ways and throw a darkness stone at the group then teleport in to attack. I don't think they'd steal items, provoking an AoO due to having to be within 5 feet, but they could use their longspear to disarm and then take off with weapons or shields.

Challenge 1: The alchemist has access to the fly spell but the babau can, hopefully, wait for that to expire. The kineticist can fly much longer. I think the babau would have no choice but to avoid attacking her while she's flying but multiple areas of darkness, using stones with the spell cast on them, could help them avoid her attacks.

Challenge 2: The babau have a limited amount of time in which to attack the party. It won't take them long, about half an hour at normal adventuring pace, to reach the trap I mentioned. The babau are going to have to work fast.

Question: Could you suggest other tactics that the babau might use? The party basically has to follow a 40 foot wide avenue, with a ruined city seemingly made of gold around them that is incredibly difficult to get through, from the bridge to the summoning trap approximately a half hour walk away.

Pizza Lord wrote:

they still threaten with their bites into adjacent squares

Thank you for mentioning this as I didn't think of it.

[Ryze Kuja]

Challenge 1) The Babau would make every effort to dispel the Alchemist as soon as possible, because flying Bomb throwers are a high priority.

Challenge 2) If they're in an area of Dim Light, and they're walking down a 40ft wide path, the Babau wwould definitely go before them and cast darkness on rocks and pebbles and scatter them everywhere. They might even take the chance to Dispel their light source and GT away. Also, this is a great time to start summoning another Babau in the outer part of the city. Remember that Babau are extremely patient killers, and they would never feel "forced" to attack within this 30 minute window. They are so patient that sometimes they wait motionless for years before attacking. So if the PC's are playing their cards right by dealing with the Darkness spells efficiently, and staying together as to not get picked off, the Babau might not ever attack them, and that still "solves" the encounter.

[Mark Hoover 330]

What does the Alchemist carry things in? They have Fly so I'm guessing the party is high enough level where we're seeing Bags of Holding or Handy Haversacks. If you think the Babau have a reasonable chance of beating the DC, casting a targeted Dispel Magic on an item of "holding" can be especially inconvenient for the PC who might be carrying a portable alchemy lab on the hip.

Its a ruined city right? If there's crumbling infrastructure anywhere, having the demons teleport up onto a ledge or wall, start a collapse of some kind and teleport away could be advantageous.

When it comes time for actual combat, keep them as far back as they can be from the PCs and still use their Longspears. As much as possible draw the PCs towards the demons. You can use Darkness spells to do this, but here's something else to think about: Fire.

Babau demons are Resist Fire 10. A flask of oil that fills a square and is set ablaze deals 1d3 Fire damage to anything in that square for 2 rounds. I'm sure there are other substances or rules for larger fires occupying a square that deal even more.

The point is: so long as large, full squares filled with Fire don't do more than 10 damage/round, the Babau can travel through them without incident while the PCs may have to avoid them. In fact, the demons could occupy the same square as the fire and take some kind of action from within while the PCs have to maintain some level of distance.

Using a Standard action to Greater Teleport and a Move action to withdraw and drop, say, a flask of Alchemist's Fire into one of several squares which have been pre-prepared to be filled with bonfires, you could have the Babau start a blaze from Surprise that the PCs may not have anticipated. Suddenly the party finds themselves trapped between a wall of mundane fire on one end of the avenue they're traveling, with the other filled with magical Darkness. If they move back towards the fire to dispatch the demons they might have to pass through or enter squares of Fire to do so; if they move ahead into the Darkness the other Babau lie in wait.

Finally, if there's ANY way you can involve Electricity, that'd be great! The demons are immune so maybe give them Jars of Lightning that they smash on the ground if enemies get too close? I don't know, just throwing that out there.

[Pizza Lord]

Thank you for giving us more details. Obviously if you have a river of molten gold, you should watch for opportunities to Bull Rush PCs off the bridge (not the dwarf).

Any flying PCs will also be highly likely to be targeted with dispel magic. Optimally, at the bridge you can have the babau try and lure a flying PC out over the lava and then dispel, but it works anytime they are up high. Do remember that when fly ends, the caster is affected by feather fall-like effect for 1d6 rounds and dispel magic counts as the spell ending normally.

The bridge is a good place for an encounter, not necessarily the end-all-be-all encounter with the babau. If there's cover, such as a barrier or pillar along the side, one babau could be down behind the cover (fully hidden or not) and tossing darkness-enchanted stones and objects at various points to cut vision to most of the PCs. Then he teleports up to a ledge or other area which overlooks it (the other is in another spot doing the same), and they snipe as the PCs cross the bridge. Shortbows are reasonably effective and not super expensive, but if need be they can just be throwing daggers (though the range penalties add up).

If their sniper spot is within 30 ft. they will get Sneak Attack damage (such as from a bridge pillar or support or suitable close building to one side). Remember they can start one side from flanking buildings or ledges then move to the middle on a bridge support and then to the far side if need be if the party tries to flee the bridge, They could also try and Snipe, which is a –20 to Stealth, but would keep them hidden after the first shot.

Maybe there are a few 5-foot holes or gaps in the bridge if it's ruined and the babaus place darkness objects just on the the other side of the holes. The dwarf and kineticist will likely be able to spot the objects (and Spellcraft to deduce that they have the effect on) and obviously be able to see the holes as well. If the PCs just try and go around the holes at the dwarf's guidance, they are still considered blind (assuming it's dark, also no Dex and other bonuses to attackers for defender being blind) and vulnerable to Sneak Attack. If the dwarf or kineticist go first to maybe pick up or kick the darkness stone into the hole, then the babau can either dispel magic on the flier or have their summoned babau appear flanking the dwarf so he can't easily get back around the hole (summons only last about 7 rounds unfortunately and there's no guarantee (40%) they'll succeed in working, so this is a bit chancy). Or the babau take that opportunity to teleport in flanking (trusting the darkness to keep most other PCs from ganging up on them and Sneak Attack or try and bull rush the character into the hole (unlikely against the dwarf though).

Also, remember that caltrops are good tactics, have the babau scatter a few on points of the bridge, where if someone does charge they might get hit and flounder, ending their charge (works good in darkness). Even if the babau somehow step or walk over the affected spaces, their DR will probably stop them from taking any damage (unless they're using cold-iron caltrops for some unfathomable reason). So fill the area with scattered squares of them.

If you want to get really, really demonically cruel... Assuming the babau know the PCs are coming, they can go get a kitty cat or puppy (they have teleport, break into a pet store in some city somewhere if there aren't any stray cats or dogs around the ruined city*), and they place it in a sack where it whines or mews (or a fine netting so it can be seen), and have it dangling out from a pole or rope off the bridge (the base of which is in darkness). Then see if one of your fliers gets lured out to save it and then gets multiple dispels thrown at them while they try and free the net or bag (and they won't even know it's happening unless a visual effect that's on them goes away during the attempts). Just remember, any PC falling into molten gold is likely dead (like lava, 20d6 fire damage and 10d6 for a round or two even after getting out), so (if you want to be kind-hearted, *gag*) maybe they feather fall onto a broken support island or some other piece of crumbled rock or ruin jutting up. The same for anyone falling through a hole, they take falling damage but maybe land on a pile of the ruined bridge just barely jutting up and needing to be rescued.

Key up a few sound files of a puppy or dog crying or a kitten mewing to play for added effect. If the PCs just ignore the animal in distress... then maybe you need to do some alignment auditing (not saying that it will change anyone's alignment by itself... but it's definitely a potential thing to look at).

*Especially good if it's a pet store or place the PCs have been or will go to, where the owner talks about a strange break-in where only a kitten/puppy was taken. If the PCs somehow saved the kitten/puppy and have it, maybe there's a touching scene (if you're kind-hearted, *gag*). But.... if you're really, really demonically cruel... they're accused of the theft, *thumbs up!*

[Hugo Rune]

I think that casting darkness on the flying Alchemist (unless they have Darkvision) would be more effective than Dispel Magic. I would rule that the chance to get 'lost' would be a DC22 Survival check (DC18 for Open Sea, +4 for being effectively blinded) in both x and y axis, checked separately every round. They are likely to be flying off in a random direction and be effectively neutralised until the spell wears off and may result in a crash as well.

Don't forget Dispel Magic also affects magic items, which is a good way of temporarily neutralising weapons that could bypass DR.

[Zagig]

D'oh! How did I miss that Dispel Magic can be used on flying, even on the kineticist!

Darkness: Throwing darkness stones all over the avenue might be a good idea if it causes the party to take an alternate series of avenues that doubles their travel time and forces them to cross 2 of the summoning traps instead of 1. Although, they might just wait the spell out. Ryze Kuja, you're right about them not being forced into a time limit. The instructions are to attack the party, so they are going to be very patient. The babau still might try to get someone to step over the channel that activates the summoning trap, using Bull Rush or Reposition, even if they have to take an AoO.

Dispel Magic: It would be awesome to cast this on the alchemist's Bag of Holding or kineticist's Haversack while they are flying. Thank you! I have thought about trying to lure someone over the lava and cast Dispel Magic but, at this point, I'm not sure how to do that due to the layout of things. I will keep thinking on this and, if nothing else, see if I can use it during the encounter. They don't have any weapons that bypass the DR, so thankfully that's not a concern.

The Bridge: The bridge is good in that it is a covered stone bridge, well built and sturdy, with the cover 30 feet above the floor. The babau that cast darkness on itself at the very end of last session was on top of the bridge, so the party never saw it and only heard it cast darkness. My plan is to start with some darkness stones from a babau hidden beside the bridge, as you mentioned. I will keep it low, as they can't just have an unlimited amount, so maybe they have 10 or 20 prepared.

Bait: I have considered using one of the cultist's but they need to stay with their leader as they cannot rejoin her due to another location deeper in the city. It's too bad that the babau aren't good at Bluff as I could try luring the party with a voice or sound. In a different situation, I would like the use of someone or something that really means something to the party but, considering that the babau are called and don't really know where they are, it seems too metagame to me. I will think about it though and maybe change my mind. I really do want to lure someone over the lava canal though.

Again, thank you very much. Tactics are my big weakness as a DM and I'm so glad you are all so helpful.

[Zagig]

Additional question: Don't the babau need to know what items are magical in order to cast Dispel Magic on them? It makes sense to target armor or weapons but how are they supposed to know what other items are magical? It seems like Dispel Magic is better used to end ongoing spells in this case.

[Ryze Kuja]

Zagig wrote:

Additional question: Don't the babau need to know what items are magical in order to cast Dispel Magic on them? It makes sense to target armor or weapons but how are they supposed to know what other items are magical? It seems like Dispel Magic is better used to end ongoing spells in this case.

Babau have an Int of 14, so I'd say that's high enough Int for them to make an educated guess that a party of adventurers of their caliber would have the most commonplace magical items, like bags of holding and handy haversacks, especially considering how cheap and readily available they are.

[Pizza Lord]

Zagig wrote:

The babau that cast darkness on itself at the very end of last session was on top of the bridge, so the party never saw it and only heard it cast darkness.

If they're using spell-like abilities, there should be no sound as they don't have verbal or somatic components (you can certainly have them make sounds if you want). Unless the PCs can actually see them (they'd see them concentrate momentarily) they won't be aware unless they see something happen, like the darkness appear.

If the babau are called they definitely won't want to die. They will use hit and run. If the party tries to wait out the darkness spells, just have them snipe at the ones who can't see through darkness until they move. If they get hurt they can teleport to the cultists for healing, buffs, or simple gear (even a hammer and spike to spike doors closed from the other side just to slow PCs down. They have teleport, they don't care).

Quote:

... you're right about them not being forced into a time limit.

Not sure why there isn't a time limit. You've got a cult and their leader just sitting around, waiting in the last room of the dungeon for the party to come kill them? Not even... performing some ritual to bring eternal night or sacrifice a farmer's daughter?

Then you should lie. At least make the PCs think there's a reason to rush. Have the babau call down that they'll never stop the great ritual in time (hidden from out of sight above the bridge). Especially not if they take the long way across the bridge (probably a lie) and in which case the 'guardians of the bridge' would have to destroy them. Tell the PCs leave 100 gp worth of coins and treasure and they'll tell them the alternate 'shorter' route (also probably a lie and past more traps).

PCs won't get a Sense Motive unless they spend at least a minute (and ask) but I probably wouldn't allow it if they can't clearly see the speaker to pick up clues.

[Zagig]

Pizza Lord wrote:

If they're using spell-like abilities, there should be no sound as they don't have verbal or somatic components (you can certainly have them make sounds if you want). Unless the PCs can actually see them (they'd see them concentrate momentarily) they won't be aware unless they see something happen, like the darkness appear.

Oh yeah, I forgot that it was just concentration. Oh well, it's done.

Pizza Lord wrote:

If the party tries to wait out the darkness spells, just have them snipe at the ones who can't see through darkness until they move.

I think I got this one solved. I did some in depth distance figuring and such today. The demons can run 1200 feet in 1 minute. The intersection, and turning point to get further into the city, is only 1350 feet or so down the avenue from the bridge. One of the summoned demons is going to teleport 75 feet from the bridge and begin running down the avenue, every 40 feet dropping darkness stones, which he has a bunch of in his hand, as a free action. Near the intersection he spends 3 minutes preparing 30 more darkness stones then runs back, dropping stones again, stopping when he sees the party. At this point there should be enough darkness stones on the avenue that this demon can then assist in the ambushes. The party is not going to have any choice but to move into the darkness. There's no safer way to move.

Pizza Lord wrote:

Not sure why there isn't a time limit. You've got a cult and their leader just sitting around, waiting in the last room of the dungeon for the party to come kill them? Not even... performing some ritual to bring eternal night or sacrifice a farmer's daughter?

Oh, there's a time limit. But the babau and the cultists don't know about it. The cult leader is after an object, an artifact jewel, at the center of the city. The babau are, I think, mostly there to slow the party down so that they don't get to her before she gets to the artifact. However, the party knows that in about 53 hours those canals of molten gold are suddenly going to spill over and flood the entire underground ruined city and the doors that allow entry and exit from the city are going to close and lock and the cult leader is the only one with the key. So, while the babau don't know they have a time limit, the party won't have to be hurried up by the babau.

[Zagig]

Oh man, I just realized something bad. One of my flying characters is the kineticist using self telekinesis. I can't target that with dispel magic. So, since she has to use aether to push herself through the air, it will be pretty obvious that the effect is different and Dispel Magic won't work. I think they would target her immediately at that point. She's got darkvision for 10 feet and she always gets to act in a surprise round and is never denied her Dex bonus to AC so they are going to have a hard time with her, plus I hate to target one character over the others, but it makes sense to me that they would do this.

If I can get her on top of the covered bridge, even if she's up in the air, I think that I can bull rush her into the lava. Technically, she's not flying between actions so she can be moved, I think, and would fall.

[Hugo Rune]

You can target someone indirectly. Ie target their allies. I still think that casting Darkness on a flier would neutralise them very effectively.

[Pizza Lord]

Zagig wrote:

One of my flying characters is the kineticist using self telekinesis. I can't target that with dispel magic.

If what you're saying about the kineticist is that she is using self telekinesis (basically a version of flame jet) then you are probably right that she can't 'normally' be targeted with a dispel magic since that utility basically moves her and is done (she will fall at the start of her next turn if mid-air and she does not use the power again).

The only way a babau would be able to 'drop' her from flight, would be with a readied action to specifically do so, at which point they could attempt to dispel the power at any point in her movement technically. As for whether this would actually make her fall or would just end her movement there (in mid-air) but not make her fall until the start of her next turn is debatable (though I would probably rule that she doesn't fall, just has her movement ended, since that would be similar to the effect ending on its own).

You're right that the babau would likely realize this wasn't flying or a fly spell, more like someone just jumping or similar with boots of striding and springing or something.

Hugo Rune wrote:

I still think that casting Darkness on a flier would neutralise them very effectively.

Darkness is a touch spell, so they'd need to be able to touch the flier. While in the case of the kineticist, if they catch her in reach in between her self telekinesis bursts, it's possible, but at that point they should likely be stabbing, grappling, or trying to bring her down with attacks and sneak attacks (especially if there's a darkness effect between her and the rest of the party).