Counter Performance - Problem?

[Captain Zoom]

I was gearing up to play a bard, so was doing a lot of reading.

Counter Performance seems like a great ability (focus spell), BUT as a practical matter, when could you ever actually use it?

Under Composition Spells, it says: "You can cast only one composition spell each turn, and you can have only one active at a time. If you cast a new composition spell, any ongoing effects from your previous composition spell end immediately."

There's no language in the Counter Performance spell that excepts it from the general rule.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect your average bard will cast Inspire Courage (or another composition cantrip) each turn. That seems to preclude you using Counter Performance since you can't cast a second composition spell in the same turn.

Harmonize (Level 6) would work, but then you're using 2 actions every turn to cast Inspire Courage just in case you want to use Counter Performance, but it would work. Seems kind of expensive in terms of action economy. Could be useful if you truly anticipate needing counter performance (like you are fighting a banshee).

You could (if you have it) use Lingering Composition to cast your Inspire Courage, BUT unless you also Harmonize it, it will end as soon as you cast Counter Performance (also, you can't use Counter Performance in the first turn
unless it was Harmonized). Very focus point intensive and requires some planning (to say the least).

And of course with a simple two feat investment AND reaching Level 20, you can take Symphony of the Muses which solves the problem.

All I can think of is that if you truly anticipate needing to cast Counter Performance, then you don't cast a composition cantrip that turn (or the whole combat) just to keep the option of casting Counter Performance open.

Can anyone pick a hole in my analysis? Something I'm missing that would allow use of Counter Performance in the ordinary course of events? Comments?

Actually, as I plan to play a bard, I'd prefer if someone finds a flaw and tells me that yes, you can readily use Counter Performance while doing what a bard usually does.

Or maybe my supposition that bards usually cast a composition cantrip every turn is wrong... others with actual experience running a bard might say there's no problem here since they usually don't cast a composition cantrip each turn.

Thanks in advance

PRE-POSTING EDIT: It suddenly occurred to me (before I posted the above) that the rules says "You can cast only one composition spell each turn"... "turn" not "round". It doesn't say "your turn", but I guess that could be implied as turns are defined in the rules.

So, could it be interpreted that you can only cast ONE composition spell during your "turn", but in most cases, since Counter Performance is a reaction that takes place outside your "turn", that you could cast Inspire Courage, then after your turn when an enemy hits the group with something applicable, you can use your reaction to cast Counter Performance - i.e. that this does not violate the one composition spell cast per turn rule.

However, even under this interpretation, the Inspire Courage would immediately cease working as you can't (unless we use Harmonize) have two composition spells active at the same time.

If this further analysis is correct, you can use Counter Performance outside your turn at the cost of ending whatever composition cantrip you had up - seems like a reasonable trade-off.

Thanks again...

[Kyrone]

Yeah, pretty much, you will able cast it because the composition limit is in the turn instead of round, with the cost that it will end your current composition.

[Tomble Stubbletoes]

Be sure to ask your GM whether they allow reactions before your first turn in Initiative. Their answer will drastically impact how useful Counter Performance is.

One GM may say "always" (no problem there), one may say "it's circumstantial" (so freshen up your OOC diplomacy skills), and one may say "never" (which, ideally, you shouldn't encounter, since there are some reactions that trigger off Initiative being rolled, but those people do exist).

I say this because things like Harpies are usually going to do their tricks on Round 1, and it's good to know what your options are ahead of time.

[Aswaarg]

In my expirience, you are going to use a composition cantrip every turn. You are not going to use lingering composition if you expect to use the Counter Performance this combat. And when the trigger for the reaction happens, you will evaluate if the use of Counter Performance deserve to lose the previous composition (Inspire courage, Dirge of Dooom), for example if you are the next on the initiative track you will use it, if the effects of the bad thing are mild probably you will not use it.

In the end, Counter Performance is a nice trick, but is not going to determine your usual combat tactics. The worst thing of this cantrip is knowing when a thing has a visual or auditory trait. You will ask your GM over an over if you can use Counter Performance.

[Elfteiroh]

Tomble Stubbletoes wrote:

Be sure to ask your GM whether they allow reactions before your first turn in Initiative. Their answer will drastically impact how useful Counter Performance is.

One GM may say "always" (no problem there), one may say "it's circumstantial" (so freshen up your OOC diplomacy skills), and one may say "never" (which, ideally, you shouldn't encounter, since there are some reactions that trigger off Initiative being rolled, but those people do exist).

I say this because things like Harpies are usually going to do their tricks on Round 1, and it's good to know what your options are ahead of time.

Just to note: All "Reactions on initiative" that I know were mistakes that were errata'd into "free action with a trigger: you roll for initiative". If you know of more that are still reactions, might be a good idea to point them to Paizo people because they will need errata.