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According to the SRD it looks like it's just a variant +1 Striking Dagger that deals persistent poison damage on a Critical Hit.
Whenever I see something on a Chronicle that I don't recognize, archivesofnethys is the first place I go to see what it is.
It is a finesse weapon.
Poisonous Dagger says it's a +1 striking dagger with additional 1d4 persistent poison damage on a critical hit. <- also explains the price of 150gp (a 'regular' +1 striking dagger should only cost 35gp + 65gp +2sp = 100gp 2sp)
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it looks like it's just a variant +1 Striking DaggerYes, but what does that mean? Is it a finesse weapon because it's a dagger, or is it not a finesse weapon because the item description doesn't specifically say that it is a finesse weapon? Thanks.
Apologies for not explaining further. The link I provided takes you to the official SRD page for that item. From there, you can then click on the links to "striking", "dagger" and "persistent damage" to see exactly what those features do.
But, in general, if something says it's a dagger, it's a dagger in all ways, and any differences (such as the additional persistent poison damage in this case) will be outlined in the item itself.
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Eh. Depends on whether you started with a dagger and added runes to it, or started with a +1 striking dagger.
Fun fact. You can continue to add fundamental weapon runes to the poisonous dagger, increasing its attack bonus and damage dice as you level up.
And, I *believe*, with the new upgrade rules, you could even upgrade a regular +1 striking dagger to a poisonous dagger by paying the difference, assuming you had access to a poisonous dagger (such as from that Chronicle).
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That's not how pricing magic weapons works.It is a finesse weapon.
Poisonous Dagger says it's a +1 striking dagger with additional 1d4 persistent poison damage on a critical hit. <- also explains the price of 150gp (a 'regular' +1 striking dagger should only cost 35gp + 65gp +2sp = 100gp 2sp)
I am personally frustrated that magic weapons on chronicles don't include the cost of the physical item, just the cost of the runes involved.
Venture-Agent, California—Silicon Valley
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I am personally frustrated that magic weapons on chronicles don't include the cost of the physical item, just the cost of the runes involved.That's not how pricing magic weapons works.It is a finesse weapon.
Poisonous Dagger says it's a +1 striking dagger with additional 1d4 persistent poison damage on a critical hit. <- also explains the price of 150gp (a 'regular' +1 striking dagger should only cost 35gp + 65gp +2sp = 100gp 2sp)
It's because it's an actual rule in the CRB. It's a stupid rule, and causes things like guns and Exquisite Sword canes to be cheaper by buying it at +1.
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It's because it's an actual rule in the CRB. It's a stupid rule, and causes things like guns and Exquisite Sword canes to be cheaper by buying it at +1.I am personally frustrated that magic weapons on chronicles don't include the cost of the physical item, just the cost of the runes involved.That's not how pricing magic weapons works.It is a finesse weapon.
Poisonous Dagger says it's a +1 striking dagger with additional 1d4 persistent poison damage on a critical hit. <- also explains the price of 150gp (a 'regular' +1 striking dagger should only cost 35gp + 65gp +2sp = 100gp 2sp)
I am unaware that, in PFS, I can outright purchase a +1 striking exquisite sword. This seems wrong, at least for PFS.
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I think what you are linking is a general rule for a "magic weapon". I guess that does explain why, on chronicles, that a "magic weapon" does not include the item cost.
But I am not sure that we, as players, can use this part to purchase "magic weapons" directly.
I will just have to ask that question the right way and in the right manner.
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I am personally frustrated that magic weapons on chronicles don't include the cost of the physical item, just the cost of the runes involved.
You're frustrated that magic weapons on chronicles properly follow the magic weapon pricing rules?
The Prices here are for all types of weapons. You don’t need to adjust the Price from a club to a greataxe or the like. These weapons are made of standard materials, not precious materials such as cold iron.
+1 Striking dagger = 100gp
+1 striking greatsword = 100gp+1 club = 100gp
+1 striking rune = 100gp
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And, I *believe*, with the new upgrade rules, you could even upgrade a regular +1 striking dagger to a poisonous dagger by paying the difference, assuming you had access to a poisonous dagger (such as from that Chronicle).
I'm pretty sure that's incorrect.
1) You can upgrade runes, that's well established.
2) You can upgrade items within the same item listing.
You can't upgrade a +2 resilient chainmail into a Celestial Armor; or a +1 silver chain shirt into Moonlight Chain; nor a +1 trident into a Fighter's Fork... All of those are the similar situation to the proposed poisonous dagger upgrade.
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It's because it's an actual rule in the CRB. It's a stupid rule, and causes things like guns and Exquisite Sword canes to be cheaper by buying it at +1.
Looking at that link, it appears to only apply to one-handed weapon.
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Eh. Depends on whether you started with a dagger and added runes to it, or started with a +1 striking dagger.
Fun fact. You can continue to add fundamental weapon runes to the poisonous dagger, increasing its attack bonus and damage dice as you level up.
And, I *believe*, with the new upgrade rules, you could even upgrade a regular +1 striking dagger to a poisonous dagger by paying the difference, assuming you had access to a poisonous dagger (such as from that Chronicle).
It is a bit of a grey area. Technically, I think the words of the rule imply you cannot. I can see if we can get a clarification that allows that.
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It's because it's an actual rule in the CRB. It's a stupid rule, and causes things like guns and Exquisite Sword canes to be cheaper by buying it at +1.Looking at that link, it appears to only apply to one-handed weapon.
Nope all weapons.
That said, there is no gun I recall from the playtest that was more expensive than like 20 gp.
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It's because it's an actual rule in the CRB. It's a stupid rule, and causes things like guns and Exquisite Sword canes to be cheaper by buying it at +1.Looking at that link, it appears to only apply to one-handed weapon.
The Prices here are for all types of weapons. You don’t need to adjust the Price from a club to a greataxe or the like. These weapons are made of standard materials, not precious materials such as cold iron.
What in that link possibly makes you think that rule only applies to 1 handed weapons?
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And, I *believe*, with the new upgrade rules, you could even upgrade a regular +1 striking dagger to a poisonous dagger by paying the difference, assuming you had access to a poisonous dagger (such as from that Chronicle).I'm pretty sure that's incorrect.
1) You can upgrade runes, that's well established.
2) You can upgrade items within the same item listing.
You can't upgrade a +2 resilient chainmail into a Celestial Armor; or a +1 silver chain shirt into Moonlight Chain; nor a +1 trident into a Fighter's Fork... All of those are the similar situation to the proposed poisonous dagger upgrade.
Why not?
Add text about upgrading an item from a lower-level version into a higher-level version. "The GM might allow you to Craft a permanent item from a lower-level version of the same item as an upgrade. For example, you might upgrade a bag of holding from a type I to a type II bag, but you couldn’t upgrade a clear spindle aeon stone into an orange prism aeon stone. The cost for this upgrade is the full difference in Price between the items, and the Crafting check uses a DC for the item’s new level."
That's pretty broad language.
On the topic of "not needing to pay for the base item", using the 1st-level Rebuild to trade in your composite longbow for a +1 composite longbow is my personal favorite.
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But, in general, if something says it's a dagger, it's a dagger in all ways, and any differences (such as the additional persistent poison damage in this case) will be outlined in the item itself.
Thanks, that's what I was clumsily trying to ask. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.
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I'm not sure, I've been getting that primarily from Jared. Who has already indicated he's asking to see if it should be interpreted more broadly.
Correct,the text I have for it in my notes says that you can only upgrade *within* a specific stat block. And only if the items have a ranked acsendency.
(I thought this made it into the guide, under purchasing, but it looks like it may never have gotten past final approval. It looks like it may have gotten missed due to a necessary person being on vacation or out of office.)
That said, this is *not* something we discussed when wordcrafting the rule, so I will have to ask.
This is also tangentially related to the question "do different wands need seperate formulas" which I don't have an answer to. And has implications for "can you upgrade a 1st level wand into a 3rd level wand of a different spell..."
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(Quick note on priorities.) This is relatively high on my priorities, but I just dropped a massive stack of (virtual) pages on Linda and Tonya's desks. They turned around and dropped an *even* larger stack back on my desk, along with a deadline.
I will get an answer to this as soon as I can, in the mean time use your judgement, within the scope of the published answers, and keep your receipts, just in case.
I would not expect an answer within the next 3 months, but I am hopeful you will get answers to a lot of *other* questions in that time.
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It's because it's an actual rule in the CRB. It's a stupid rule, and causes things like guns and Exquisite Sword canes to be cheaper by buying it at +1.Looking at that link, it appears to only apply to one-handed weapon.The Prices here are for all types of weapons. You don’t need to adjust the Price from a club to a greataxe or the like. These weapons are made of standard materials, not precious materials such as cold iron.What in that link possibly makes you think that rule only applies to 1 handed weapons?
The "Usage held in 1 hand" part.
Looking at this again, I am becoming more convinced that the costs listed in this part of CRB is for making a weapon magical. I think the original item is needed before making it a magical weapon. I know, the chronicles don't take into account the base price. But with base prices for items starting to go up, the alchemical crossbow is another example, I think it is "too good to be true".
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That's pretty broad language.
On the topic of "not needing to pay for the base item", using the 1st-level Rebuild to trade in your composite longbow for a +1 composite longbow is my personal favorite.
How can you do this? The character is still 1st level so can't trade a composite longbow for a +1 version because the +1 rune is item level 2.
If the character is 2nd level, they don't get the free rebuild.
This might be a different discussion about when does a character become 2nd level....
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A first level character can buy 2nd level items. You are restricted to you level, minimum 2.
Any common equipment in sanctioned Pathfinder content with an item level equal to or less than your character’s level (minimum 2).
Also, the cost of the weapon is clearly included in the cost of the magic weapon. I think there's even a PFS clarification somewhere preventing you from selling the weapon if you move the runes to another weapon later, though I don't remember where that is right now.
This next quote is from Archives of Nethys, but references the CRB page 599 (I don't have my pdf handy). There's no mention of limiting it to 1-handed weapons.
Many magic weapons are created by etching runes onto them, as described on page 580. The magic weapon stat block covers the Prices and attributes of the most common weapons you can make with only fundamental runes.
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A first level character can buy 2nd level items. You are restricted to you level, minimum 2.
Any common equipment in sanctioned Pathfinder content with an item level equal to or less than your character’s level (minimum 2).Also, the cost of the weapon is clearly included in the cost of the magic weapon. I think there's even a PFS clarification somewhere preventing you from selling the weapon if you move the runes to another weapon later, though I don't remember where that is right now.
This next quote is from Archives of Nethys, but references the CRB page 599 (I don't have my pdf handy). There's no mention of limiting it to 1-handed weapons.
Many magic weapons are created by etching runes onto them, as described on page 580. The magic weapon stat block covers the Prices and attributes of the most common weapons you can make with only fundamental runes.
It is in purchasing guidelines, under selling items.
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I actually didn't know about the minimum Level 2 allowance. So thank you!
I meant more like selling a mundane composite bow as part of the Rebuild when you reach 12xp, then purchasing a +1 composite bow, since you're now 2nd level.
But I guess now that's possible even earlier.
Ok thanks for the clarification.
I too didn't see the minimum level 2.