| glass |
I have been gving some thought lately to characters who for whatever reason need to enhance multiple weapons: Two weapon fighters, switch hitters, firearm users who do not want to reload multiple times in six seconds. ISTM that something (or several somethings) like an Amulet of Mighty Fists but for manufactured weapons would be helpful here. Each would be enhanced just like a weapon (albeit more expensive) and would then apply those enhancements to any appropriate weapon you wield.
I am thinking bracers for ranged weapons, but I am not sure for melee weapons. Belt would be the obvious item, but I do not want to conflict with stat boosters - gloves perhaps? I am also thinking a pair of rings, for the ultimate "all weapons" item.
For prices, I am thinking 2000 + bonus-squared x 4000 for the basic items and 2000 + bonus squared x 5000 for the ultimate version. That way, it costs the same as enhancing two items (one of which is cold iron) - at the cost of a bit of flxibility (and an item slot or two) you get your third and fourth weapons (and so on but diminishing returns) enhanced too.
The idea is not to completely replace enhancing individual items, but to provide an additional option alongside it which is hopefully more or less balanced - so am I somewhere close? Any comments on the slot assignments? Any other thoughts?
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glass.
PS Speaking of pairs of rings, I am aware of Doubling Rings from PF2, which would also help with some of these use cases if they were back-ported. But I am not sure how to price them in PF1.
| Mark Hoover 330 |
Personally I'd make them bracers and just have these bracers run the same price as a belt or headband that enhances a stat. The bracers would be based on the spell Divine Favor and provide a Luck bonus that only ranges from +1 to +3 instead of the full +1-5 gamut.
These items are expensive by design; the Luck bonus then adds to other bonuses from specific magic weapons. I think there's also a Trait or Feat that allows you to take greater advantage of a Luck bonus, so these items would reward that build. However, a standard +1 attack/damage to all weapons would be possible for 4k gold which is reasonable for average PCs by about level 4-6 (factoring in other "big 6" items being purchased during this time).
Either that... or I'd just encourage the players to have potions of Divine Favor around.
| glass |
To clarify a little what I mean my first post, lets start with the ranged version since that is the one I have clearest in my head at the moment:
Targeteer's Bracers
Price: Varies, see below.
Aura: Fain transmutation (+1), moderate transmutation (+2 or +3) or strong transmutation (+4 or +5) plus auras of individual properties.
Caster Level: Three times enhancement bonus, or caster levels of individual properties, whichever is greatest.
Weight: 1 lb
When worn, these leather wrist guards fitted with engraved metal plates pass on their magical properties to any ranged weapon weilded by the wearer (and were appropriate, on to amunition loosed or fired from any such weapon). Both bracers must be worn to function.
Artifacts and intelligent weapons are not affected. Otherwise, any magical properties of the weapon itself is suppressed as long as it is weilded by the wearer, with the following exceptions: Magic properties costed as a flat gp value rather than a plus equivalent continue to function, and the item always uses it own built-in enhancement bonus if any to determine its hit points (its hardness is based on its own enhancement bonus or that conferred by this item, whichever is greater). Magical properties and enhancement bonuses of ammunition are not supressed, but may be overlapped.
The conferral and suppression last long enough for the conferred properties to carry out their function (and the suppressed properties not to), but otherwise end when the weapon is no longer being weilded by the wearer. Ranged weapons which can also be used in melee retain their own enhancement bonus and properties (if any) when used in melee, but immediately lose them in favour of the confered properties
For example, a dagger used in melee would retain its own enhancement bonus and properties. However, as soon as the wearer began an attack in which the dagger was to be thrown, those bonuses and properties would be suppressed in favour of those conferred by the bracers. If the bracers conferred the returning property, it would return to the wearer after throwing as normal, but any native returning property on the weapon itself would be suppressed and therefore ignored.
The bracers confer an enhancement bonus to the weapon of between +1 and +5, and may also confer ranged-weapon properties such that the total effective bonus is a maximum of +10. They can be created with properties which only apply to a subset of weapons, but will only confer those properties on eligible weapons.
For example, a set of bracers could be created with the distance and returning properties. The returning property would not function when using a bow, but the distance property would work with any ranged weapon.
EDIT: The enhancement bonus functions normally with respect to DR.
The price of Targeteer's Bracers is 2000 + (effective bonus squared x 4000).
Except as noted below, Targeteer's Bracers are created just like magic weapons. The cost is equal to one half of the cost as calcuated above. The caster level requirement cannot be ignored by increasing the craft DC.
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms & Amour, Craft Wondrous Item, other requirements as per individual properites, creator's caster level must at least equal the items caster level.
Make sense? Have I missed anything?
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glass.
| glass |
Personally I'd make them bracers and just have these bracers run the same price as a belt or headband that enhances a stat. The bracers would be based on the spell Divine Favor and provide a Luck bonus that only ranges from +1 to +3 instead of the full +1-5 gamut.
These items are expensive by design; the Luck bonus then adds to other bonuses from specific magic weapons. I think there's also a Trait or Feat that allows you to take greater advantage of a Luck bonus, so these items would reward that build. However, a standard +1 attack/damage to all weapons would be possible for 4k gold which is reasonable for average PCs by about level 4-6 (factoring in other "big 6" items being purchased during this time).
Either that... or I'd just encourage the players to have potions of Divine Favor around.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for posting, but making them luck bonuses would mean they stack with enhancement bonuses on the actual items, which means that the pressure to enhance the individual items would still be there. Which is the opposite of what I am going for! I want to provide alternative approaches for one of the big six, not make it a big seven!
Also, luck bonuses do nothing to help with DR. Which reminds me, I should clarify that enhancement bonuses conferred by these items do.
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glass.
PS I know we are in the homebrew forum, but Divine Favour is a personal spell so cannot be made into a potion by RAW.
| Mark Hoover 330 |
My bad G-lass, I 100% got it wrong and misread your OP. I though when you said
The idea is not to completely replace enhancing individual items, but to provide an additional option alongside it
you DID want something that would work along side of, not as a replacement of, the individual Enhancement bonuses on other items. I apologize for reading while distracted!
Also you're right that Divine Favor isn't eligible as a potion. Instead I'd make it a Consumable Wondrous Item then, like Dust of Disappearance or something.
Well, I mean, if you want a single weapon that gets to be multiple weapons and keeps its bonuses for switch hitters and such, the Greater Transformative weapon quality might just get you there. It obviously still doesn't work for 2 weapon wielders, but like, if you have a ranger that switches from Ranged to Melee all the time this kind of covers what you're looking for?
Again, I might just be completely missing the mark again so please tell me to take a hike if I'm getting it wrong.
| Mudfoot |
How about gauntlets that cast (Greater) Magic Weapon but only on weapons being held by those gauntlets?
| glass |
My bad G-lass, I 100% got it wrong and misread your OP. I though when you saidglass wrote:The idea is not to completely replace enhancing individual items, but to provide an additional option alongside ityou DID want something that would work along side of, not as a replacement of, the individual Enhancement bonuses on other items. I apologize for reading while distracted!
NP. Now that you mention it, I can see how you came to that conclusion. And apologies if my previous post was a bit harsh - the "thank you for posting" was sincere, but could easily be read as sarcastic.
How about gauntlets that cast (Greater) Magic Weapon but only on weapons being held by those gauntlets?
Interesting idea, and one with pros and cons compared with my version. On the minus side, it cannot give properties (unless you are using the Mythic version), and also does nothing to help with DR.
On the plus side, it preserves any properties the weapon already has. Which could be quite powerful - you could have a +5 gauntlet and and +1 weapon with 5 plusses of properties, and even though you would be wasting the +1 on the weapon it would be significantly cheaper than the +10 weapon it would be almost equivalent to. OTOH, you could achieve the same by just casting GMW, so it is not like it is unprecendented.
A lot depends on the action economy. Is it always on, or do you need an action to activate it? And if the latter what kind of action? How long does it last? Can it be activated at will or is it limited per day or per encounter?
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glass.
| glass |
Thinking a bit more about Mudfoot's suggestion, I think it is more interesting (as in more distict from other options) is it does require some sort of activation - but obviously if it is a standard action nobody is going to bother with it! So I am thinking swift action.
(I did briefly consider its being activated by drawing the weapon, but that makes more sense for a belt IMO.)
How about this:
Gloves of Enhancement
Price: 4000 gp (+1), 10000 gp (+2), 20000 gp (+3), 34000 gp (+4), 52000 gp (+5)
Aura: Faint transmutation (+1), moderate transmutation (+2 or +3) or strong transmutation (+4 or +5)
Caster Level: Three times enhancement bonus
Weight: -
When activated as a swift action, this provides an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls for the weapon being held in the hand. The bonus only function for weapons weilded or thrown using that hand, so the wearer cannot enhance a weapon and then pass it off to someone else or even to their other hand. The glove can be activated three times per encounter, and lasts for ten minutes per activation, but otherwise functions as per the greater magic weapon spell (and so does not confer the ability bypass DR other than /magic).
The gloves can be used in pairs, in which case the a single swift action can be used to activate one or both. Either can be used to enhance a weapon held in both hands, but there is no additional benefit for the second glove unless the weapon is a double weapon, in which case the second glove can enhance the secondary end.
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms & Amour, Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon, creator's caster level must at least equal the items caster level.
| Mudfoot |
Apart from the "three times per encounter" (what is this, 4e?) that looks OK. I'd make it 3 times per day which is probably not quite enough for a typical adventuring day; less is not enough and much more might as well be permanent.
Pricing should be somewhat less than 2x2000xn^2, ie less than 4K, 16K, 36K, 64K, 100K, especially at +3 or more because no DR. So the +1 looks too pricy; maybe 2500; the others are OK and roughly in line with that.
You need to clarify how it works with projectile weapons (bows, etc).
| glass |
Apart from the "three times per encounter" (what is this, 4e?) that looks OK. I'd make it 3 times per day which is probably not quite enough for a typical adventuring day; less is not enough and much more might as well be permanent.
Per Encounter abilities exist in Pathfinder, and existed in 3.5 before that. They are an important RPG technology, and should not be ignored just because they were also in 4e and some people dislike 4e (even if I were one of them, which I am not).
Nobody would evey use them if they were a daily limit (unless the daily limit is so high as to be effectively at will but with extra book-keeping, or they were brokenly cheap). So IMO it really needs to be encounter or at will. Maybe it should just be at will; certainly it is simpler that way!
Pricing should be somewhat less than 2x2000xn^2, ie less than 4K, 16K, 36K, 64K, 100K, especially at +3 or more because no DR. So the +1 looks too pricy; maybe 2500; the others are OK and roughly in line with that.
The 4k did bother me a little, but I wanted to keep it to a consistent formula. And if it was any less than that, it would be cheaper than enhancing a cold iron sword directly - and at +1 the fact that the higher plusses so not help with DR is irrelevant to the +1 version. It is a quandry!
You need to clarify how it works with projectile weapons (bows, etc).
That seems to be covered by the "works like GMW except...". EDIT: Isn't it?
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glass.
| glass |
I decided the simplest method was to make the gloves at will, and I have also tweaked some of the wording. With the bracers I mostly just fixed typos. Since they are quite long, especially when combined, I have put them in spoiler blocks. EDIT: Dropped the cost of the +1 version down to 3500 gp (I do not feel like I can go any lower). Also added the same note the bracers had about not bypassing the CL requirement to the gloves and allowed MW rather than GMW for the +1 version.
Targeteer's Bracers
Aura: Faint transmutation (+1), moderate transmutation (+2 or +3) or strong transmutation (+4 or +5) plus auras of individual properties.
Caster Level: Three times enhancement bonus, or caster levels of individual properties, whichever is greatest.
Identification DC: 15 + three times enhancement bonus
Weight: 1 lb
When worn, these leather wrist guards fitted with engraved metal plates pass on their magical properties to any ranged weapon wielded by the wearer (and were appropriate, on to ammunition loosed or fired from any such weapon). Both bracers must be worn to function.
Artefacts and intelligent weapons are not affected. Otherwise, any magical properties of the weapon itself is suppressed as long as it is wielded by the wearer, with the following exceptions: Magic properties costed as a flat gp value rather than a plus equivalent continue to function, and the item always uses it own built-in enhancement bonus if any to determine its hit points (its hardness is based on its own enhancement bonus or that conferred by this item, whichever is greater). Magical properties and enhancement bonuses of ammunition are not suppressed, but may be overlapped.
The conferral and suppression last long enough for the conferred properties to carry out their function (and the suppressed properties not to), but otherwise end when the weapon is no longer being wielded by the wearer. Ranged weapons which can also be used in melee retain their own enhancement bonus and properties (if any) when used in melee, but immediately lose them in favour of the conferred properties
For example, a dagger used in melee would retain its own enhancement bonus and properties. However, as soon as the wearer began an attack in which the dagger was to be thrown, those bonuses and properties would be suppressed in favour of those conferred by the bracers. If the bracers conferred the returning property, it would return to the wearer after throwing as normal, but any native returning property on the weapon itself would be suppressed and therefore ignored.
The bracers confer an enhancement bonus to the weapon of between +1 and +5, and may also confer ranged-weapon properties such that the total effective bonus is a maximum of +10. They can be created with properties which only apply to a subset of weapons, but will only confer those properties on eligible weapons.
For example, a set of bracers could be created with the distance and returning properties. The returning property would not function when using a bow, but the distance property would work with any ranged weapon.
The enhancement bonus functions normally with respect to DR.
The price of Targeteer's Bracers is 2000 + (effective bonus squared x 4000).
Except as noted below, Targeteer's Bracers are created just like magic weapons. The cost is equal to one half of the cost as calculated above. The caster level requirement cannot be ignored by increasing the craft DC.
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms & Amour, Craft Wondrous Item, other requirements as per individual properties, creator's caster level must at least equal the items caster level.
Gloves of Enhancement
Aura: Faint transmutation (+1), moderate transmutation (+2 or +3) or strong transmutation (+4 or +5)
Caster Level: Three times enhancement bonus
Identification DC: 18 (+1), 21 (+2), 24 (+3), 27 (+4), 30 (+5)
Weight: -
This fine leather glove can be activated to provide an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls for the weapon being held in the hand. The bonus only functions for weapons wielded or thrown using that hand, so the wearer cannot enhance a weapon and then pass it off to someone else or even to their other hand. Once activated this way, the effect lasts for ten minutes per activation, but otherwise functions as per the greater magic weapon spell (and so does not confer the ability bypass DR other than /magic). The gloves can be activated at will by silent mental command, requiring a swift action that does not provoke an attack or opportunity.
The gloves can be used in pairs, in which case the a single swift action can be used to activate one or both. Either can be used to enhance a weapon held in both hands, but there is no additional benefit for the second glove unless the weapon is a double weapon, in which case the second glove can enhance the secondary end.
The caster level requirement cannot be ignored by increasing the craft DC.
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms & Amour, Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon (+1 only) of greater magic weapon, creator's caster level must at least equal the items caster level.
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glass.
| glass |
And since it is just some fairly simple swaps, the melee equivalent of the bracers:
Meleeist's Vest
Price: Varies, see below.
Aura: Faint transmutation (+1), moderate transmutation (+2 or +3) or strong transmutation (+4 or +5) plus auras of individual properties.
Caster Level: Three times enhancement bonus, or caster levels of individual properties, whichever is greatest.
Identification DC: 15 + three times enhancement bonus
Weight: 1 lb
When worn, this intricately patterened waistecoat on their magical properties to any melee weapon wielded by the wearer.
Artefacts and intelligent weapons are not affected. Otherwise, any magical properties of the weapon itself is suppressed as long as it is wielded by the wearer, with the following exceptions: Magic properties costed as a flat gp value rather than a plus equivalent continue to function, and the item always uses it own built-in enhancement bonus if any to determine its hit points (its hardness is based on its own enhancement bonus or that conferred by this item, whichever is greater).
The conferral and suppression last long enough for the conferred properties to carry out their function (and the suppressed properties not to), but otherwise end when the weapon is no longer being wielded by the wearer. Melee weapons that can also be thrown retain their bonuses long enough to resolve the attack in which they are thrown, unless the wearer is also wearing a set of Targeteer's Bracers, in which case the latter takes presedence.
The vest confers an enhancement bonus to the weapon of between +1 and +5, and may also confer ranged-weapon properties such that the total effective bonus is a maximum of +10. They can be created with properties which only apply to a subset of weapons, but will only confer those properties on eligible weapons.
For example, a vest could be created with the keen and flaming properties. The keen property would not function when using a mace, but the flaming property would work with any ranged weapon.
The enhancement bonus functions normally with respect to DR.
The price of a Meleeist's Vest is 2000 + (effective bonus squared x 4000).
Except as noted below, Meleeist's Vests are created just like magic weapons. The cost is equal to one half of the cost as calculated above. The caster level requirement cannot be ignored by increasing the craft DC.
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms & Amour, Craft Wondrous Item, other requirements as per individual properties, creator's caster level must at least equal the items caster level.
| glass |
And for "all of the above”:
Weaponmaster's Rings, Lesser
Price: Varies, see below.
Aura: Faint transmutation (+1), moderate transmutation (+2 or +3) or strong transmutation (+4 or +5) plus auras of individual properties.
Caster Level: Three times enhancement bonus plus 1, or caster levels of individual properties, whichever is greatest.
Identification DC: 16 + three times enhancement bonus
Weight: -
This pair of rings, one mithral and one adamantine with gems inlaid all around the band, confer an enhancement bonus and weapon properties on manufactured weapons wielded by the wearer.
Artefacts and intelligent weapons are not affected, and neither are cursed weapons. Otherwise, any magical properties of the weapon itself is suppressed as long as it is wielded by the wearer, with the following exceptions: Magic properties costed as a flat gp value rather than a plus equivalent continue to function, and the item always uses it own built-in enhancement bonus if any to determine its hit points (its hardness is based on its own enhancement bonus or that conferred by this item, whichever is greater).
The conferral and suppression last long enough for the conferred properties to carry out their function (and the suppressed properties not to), but otherwise end when the weapon is no longer being wielded by the wearer. Thrown weapons retain their bonuses long enough to resolve the attack in which they are thrown.
The vest confers an enhancement bonus to the weapon of between +1 and +5, and may also confer ranged-weapon properties such that the total effective bonus is a maximum of +10. They can be created with properties which only apply to a subset of weapons, but will only confer those properties on eligible weapons.
For example, a rings could be created with the keen, flaming, and distance properties. Neither keen nor distance would not function when using a mace, and both would function with a dagger but keen only in melee and distance only when thrown. The flaming property would work with any weapon.
Weaponmaster's Rings are made, upgraded, and worn in pairs and take up both ring slots when used.
The enhancement bonus functions normally with respect to DR.
The price of a pair of Weaponmaster's Rings is 2250 + (effective bonus squared x 4500).
Weaponmaster's Rings are a weapon enhancement item. A weapon enhancement item must be worn continuously for 24 hours before to function, after which they can be taken on and off at will (although they only function when worn). If multiple weapon enhancement items are worn that could affect a particular weapon attack, only the item with the highest caster level functions.
Except as noted below, Weaponmaster's Rings are created just like magic weapons. The cost is equal to one half of the cost as calculated above. The caster level requirement cannot be ignored by increasing the craft DC.
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms & Amour, Forge Ring, other requirements as per individual properties, creator's caster level must at least equal the items caster level.
This is “lesser” because I plan to have a greater version at works for unarmed strikes and natural weapons too. The bit that starts “Weaponmaster's Rings are a weapon enhancement item” is to be added to all the other such items, because I realised I needed to specify how they interact. I was thinking of allowing one of the rings to be used solo, but I decided it would be too complicated, abusable, or both.
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glass.
| glass |
Not going to bother typing up the greater version of the Weaponmaster's Rings here (obviously I will do so when I colate these into a proper document) - it will be as above save that they work on unarmed strikes and natural weapons too. Price would be 2500 + (bonus squared x 5000).
In the meantime, there is one other approach that might I think might have some merit:
Belt of Arming
Price: Varies, see below.
Aura: Faint transmutation (+1), moderate transmutation (+2 or +3) or strong transmutation (+4 or +5) plus auras of individual properties.
Caster Level: Three times enhancement bonus, or caster levels of individual properties, whichever is greatest.
Identification DC: 15 + three times enhancement bonus
Weight: 2 lb
A Belt of Arming functions as a Blinkback Belt, which it resembles, with the following additional features: The belt can accept a total of four light or one-handed weapons in any combination (they are not required to be melee weapons).
Any weapon drawn from it gains an enhancement bonus. The bonus fuctions normally with respect to DR, and last for five minutes after the weapon is drawn, or until a different weapon is attached the the belt via the same strap or sheath, which ever is sooner. However, the enhancement bonus only functions for the wearer of the belt.
In addition to an actual enhancement bonus of between +1 and +5, the belt may also confer weapon properties such that the total effective bonus is a maximum of +10. They can be created with properties which only apply to a subset of weapons, but will only confer those properties on eligible weapons.
When a weapon is drawn, and existing enhancement bonus and properties of the weapon are suppressed (for everyone) for the duration of the conferred bonus, with the exception that the weapon always uses its own enhancement bonus for the purpose of determining hit points (hardness is based on the weapons own enhancement bonus or the confered bonus whichever is higher). Magic properties costed as a flat gp value rather than a plus equivalent continue to function, and cannot be conferred by the belt.
In addition to throwing them, the wearer can cause items to teleport back to the belt by dropping them as a free action. However, they can override that function with a silent mental command and allow them to fall normally. Furthermore, if anyone else drops such a weapon within 30 ft of the wearer and within 5 minutes of the its being drawn, it teleports back to the belt as if the wearer had thrown it or dropped it.
The belt does not confer and bonuses or properties on artifacts, intellegent weapons, or cursed weapons but the other abilities function normally.
The price is 7500 + (effective bonus squared x 3750) gp.
Except as noted below, A Belt of Arming is created just like magic weapons. The cost is equal to one half of the price as calculated above. The caster level requirement cannot be ignored by increasing the craft DC.
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms & Amour, Craft Wondrous Item, other requirements as per individual properties, creator's caster level must at least equal the item's caster level.
The idea of the bit about other people dropping stuff is to allow an ally or familiar to reload firearms and then return them to you. And the reason why it allows for one handed weapons is to allow a decent supply of pistols....
EDIT: Decided it was a little cheap for the higher pluses, so I upped the multiplier. May still decide to up it further.
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glass.