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Urging both sides to stop is an appropriate action. The Charm spell makes your fighter think of the Kishi as his friend. But the other PCs are still his friends, too. Thus, the fighter has the horror of watching some of his friends fighting each other to the death. Of course, he wants to intervene, but without killing anyone.
When the PCs have charmed some monsters in my campaign, I had great fun imagining how the monster views the friendship. "The sorcerer and I have teamed up. He is the greatest sorcerer in the world and we are going to rule this region with his brains and my brawn. You party members are our minions. Don't get uppity or I will destroy you."
Applying that to your fighter, he could think of the kishi as a friend that he has known for years, but not seen recently. Maybe he justifies the kishi as a childhood playmate that he just recognized. Obviously, the kishi is under some misconception or delusion because he is attacking the other party members, so the fighter has to correct him. The fighter might be tempted to grapple his kishi friend to stop the unnecessary fight before the kishi dies, but the Charm spell stops all hostile actions, even one for the kishi's own good.
The angel, on the other hand, is not a friend and might be responsible for the kishi's delusion. Maybe knocking out the angel--he appears to be a friend of the kishi so killing would be too extreme--would free the kishi from the delusion.
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Charm also has the +4 bonus to saves when used mid combat. Critically failing the save should pretty much require a natural 1 to do anything with incapacitation in play. There's definitely some room for interpretation here, but I'd say the spells odds of not doing anything are high enough to warrant the busted effect should you get that nat 1.
If one of my friends was killing all my other friends, I'd kill my friend. Just saying.
If one of my friends was killing all my other friends, I'd kill my friend. Just saying.
The Charm spell, in addition to making the target friendly on a failed save and helpful on a critically failed save, also says. "It [the target] can't use hostile actions against you."
At the very least, trying to grapple and hold down my friend who was trying to kill my other friends, shouldn't be counted as a "hostile" action. Intervening without intent to harm in a fight between what you believe are allies, isn't "hostile".
While perfectly reasonable, the other side of the coin would be that the fighter couldn't just hold the Kishi down while the rest of the party stabs him. So the PCs would need to negotiate some kind of peaceful surrender until the spell wore off. IMO, that's the fun of PCs being charmed-- navigating how a desired outcome can come about within the limitations of the spell.
One potential solution would be the rest of the party promising to use nonlethal attacks if the fighter holds the Kishi down. That's a pretty meaningful handicap if they aren't a bunch of monks, but also seems appropriate to avoid watching your friends kill each other. Side with the ones who aren't going for the kill.
Of course, if the Kishi is clever it will charm the fighter before hostilities begin. Or at least before it attacks anyone, letting it claim self defense. The casting of the spell probably won't be concealed and may very well trigger an attack from other party members, but that makes them look like aggressors to the fighter.
Fun stuff!
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At the very least, trying to grapple and hold down my friend who was trying to kill my other friends, shouldn't be counted as a "hostile" action. Intervening without intent to harm in a fight between what you believe are allies, isn't "hostile".While perfectly reasonable, the other side of the coin would be that the fighter couldn't just hold the Kishi down while the rest of the party stabs him. So the PCs would need to negotiate some kind of peaceful surrender until the spell wore off. IMO, that's the fun of PCs being charmed-- navigating how a desired outcome can come about within the limitations of the spell.
One potential solution would be the rest of the party promising to use nonlethal attacks if the fighter holds the Kishi down. That's a pretty meaningful handicap if they aren't a bunch of monks, but also seems appropriate to avoid watching your friends kill each other. Side with the ones who aren't going for the kill.
Of course, if the Kishi is clever it will charm the fighter before hostilities begin. Or at least before it attacks anyone, letting it claim self defense. The casting of the spell probably won't be concealed and may very well trigger an attack from other party members, but that makes them look like aggressors to the fighter.
Fun stuff!
Yeah I think you can turn it into an interesting and sophisticated scene like that.
I looked it up just to be sure, but "hostile actions" does have some common sense and GM limits on what is covered;
Hostile Actions
Sometimes spells prevent a target from using hostile actions, or the spell ends if a creature uses any hostile actions. A hostile action is one that can harm or damage another creature, whether directly or indirectly, but not one that a creature is unaware could cause harm. For instance, casting fireball into a crowd would be a hostile action, but opening a door and accidentally freeing a horrible monster wouldn’t be. The GM is the final arbitrator of what is a hostile action.
The focus here is really on actions that cause harm. Holding down the friend that's trying to kill your other friends isn't causing it harm, and actually likely to prevent harm. So should be allowed. Now, holding down the one friend while the other friend attacks them, that I would consider hostile. So the rest of the party does need to play along. Maybe have a standoff, and the kishi could ask the charmed PC to occupy the rest of the party while it escapes into the jungle.
But requiring the PC to helplessly watch as the kishi tries to kill the rest of the party really exceeds the spell's purview.
On that, we agree. Charm isn't dominate. Really the player should choose what they do with the GM and other players having some veto privilege if they do something being charmed should not allow for.
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There is a huge amount of interpretation required with Hostile Actions.
Just be aware that the same rule applies for breaking the default Invisibility or Sanctuary Spells
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There is a huge amount of interpretation required with Hostile Actions.
Just be aware that the same rule applies for breaking the default Invisibility or Sanctuary Spells
There is some interpretation needed, but look at the actual definition; it's not really all that unclear either.
Hostile Actions
Sometimes spells prevent a target from using hostile actions, or the spell ends if a creature uses any hostile actions. A hostile action is one that can harm or damage another creature, whether directly or indirectly, but not one that a creature is unaware could cause harm. For instance, casting fireball into a crowd would be a hostile action, but opening a door and accidentally freeing a horrible monster wouldn’t be. The GM is the final arbitrator of what is a hostile action.
