Go long! (Passing things)

[Ravingdork]

What are the rules for passing things in this edition? Either a thrown pass or a simple hand off.

While rescuing a fallen party member, one of my players ran out of actions and wanted to pass his precious cargo to another team member so they could escape while he stayed behind to slow down the threat.

I looked, but couldn't finda anything.

[shroudb]

i'd say that since it's an interact action to grab something unattended, it's also an Interact action to grab something "offered".

now, on the part of the one offering, it really depends where and what the thing is imo. If the item is already in hand, or if it's something easily accessible that just by staying sitll for a second your ally can grab it, then i wouldn't ask an action from him.

[Ascalaphus]

I'd allow both:

- Interact to put something from your hands into the free hands of a willing creature.
- Interact to take something from a willing creature.

So one action either way.

Note that this is Interact which has Manipulate which could trigger reactions such as attacks of opportunity. However, the object/person being handled is essentially undergoing forced movement, therefore it's not that object/person that triggers reactions, but the people handling it. So an unconscious character isn't at risk, it's the people carrying them that have to watch out for themselves.

[Captain Morgan]

Handing things off has been allowed by Jason on air, at least during the playtest. So I'd say that's definitely good to go. Tossed potions and elixirs, OTOH, I usually let be caught as a reaction. But that's a house rule to fill a gap that logically should be filled.

[shroudb]

Captain Morgan wrote:

Handing things off has been allowed by Jason on air, at least during the playtest. So I'd say that's definitely good to go. Tossed potions and elixirs, OTOH, I usually let be caught as a reaction. But that's a house rule to fill a gap that logically should be filled.

another way to go about tossing stuff to other people is by utilize the section on the Interact action that says that "some Interact actions may need a check".

in my case it's usually a ranged attack roll (using simple weapon proficiency and 20ft range increments) vs a static "easy" trained DC (in most cases AC 13)

Ally just need to have an empty hand to catch the item, no reaction required.

[Themetricsystem]

This has already been answered.

Equipment Chapter - Table 6-2

Both the Creature passing the Item and the Creature taking the item need to have at least 1 free hand and spend 1 Interact Action each. It's not really ambiguous at all since there is no mention whatsoever (anywhere) of Reactions to "accept" a passed item or to "allow" another Character to take something from you. It is simply listing the Action cost for either of these things and both are listed as an Interact Action which needs to be spent individually.

I don't particularly LIKE this very much but this is in the Rules Discussion Forum, not Homebrew.
/thread

[Castilliano]

No wonder we see so few team sports on Golarion.

[Ascalaphus]

That doesn't read to me like both of them need to spend an Interact, but rather that one of them has to, and it can be either.

In fact, both of them spending an Interact simultaneously would be impossible because you can only do it on your own turn.

[shroudb]

Themetricsystem wrote:

This has already been answered.

Equipment Chapter - Table 6-2

Both the Creature passing the Item and the Creature taking the item need to have at least 1 free hand and spend 1 Interact Action each. It's not really ambiguous at all since there is no mention whatsoever (anywhere) of Reactions to "accept" a passed item or to "allow" another Character to take something from you. It is simply listing the Action cost for either of these things and both are listed as an Interact Action which needs to be spent individually.

I don't particularly LIKE this very much but this is in the Rules Discussion Forum, not Homebrew.
/thread

it's like nowhere clear:

Quote:

Pass an item to or take an item from a willing creature

is an Interact action, but nowhere is it implyined that you need to do both simultaneously.

If anything, you cannot do those 2 actions simultaneously since you can only do actions on your turn.

so, if person A spends an action to give something, person B can't spend an action to accept said item.

To me it seems pretty clear in fat that the exact opposite is suggested by the rules:
in order for an item to change possesion you need to spend an Action to give OR an action to receive, not both.

[Themetricsystem]

All character's turns are taken simultaneously despite them actually being played out in turn order and in the sequence decided by the Creatures turn.

This means that the person doing the handing off or permitting the item to be taken must end their turn within reach of the other. One spends an Action to take or pass and ends their turn. Init moves until the next participant is up and then they spend the Action to take or pass and bing-bang-boom, you're done. Easy peasy.

If you want to take an item from somebody you need to spend an Action, full stop. If you want to pass an item to somebody you need to spend an Action, full stop. Both of these things are plainly written on that chart I linked and I really don't see how this is at all hard to understand, it's formatted in the same way that all other Interact Actions are ...

Just because you don't LIKE it doesn't mean it's not correct, hell, I don't like it either but the question is about how it DOES work and not how you WANT it to work.

Beyond the way it's written it is also important to enforce this for the same reason that it takes one Action to change your grip on an item. If you want to argue that changing your grip on something you're already holding takes MORE time and Actions than it would take + hold/grip something that is handed to you by another Creature then... well, I'm afraid that's not a discussion I'd even be wiling to humor.

This is cut and dry folks, we actually have already had I think.. three(?) threads on the topic that all came up with this same answer. You don't get to take or give something to another Character without each participant spending an action.

[shroudb]

Themetricsystem wrote:

All character's turns are taken simultaneously despite them actually being played out in turn order and in the sequence decided by the Creatures turn.

This means that the person doing the handing off or permitting the item to be taken must end their turn within reach of the other. One spends an Action to take or pass and ends their turn. Init moves until the next participant is up and then they spend the Action to take or pass and bing-bang-boom, you're done. Easy peasy.

If you want to take an item from somebody you need to spend an Action, full stop. If you want to pass an item to somebody you need to spend an Action, full stop. Both of these things are plainly written on that chart I linked and I really don't see how this is at all hard to understand, it's formatted in the same way that all other Interact Actions are ...

Just because you don't LIKE it doesn't mean it's not correct, hell, I don't like it either but the question is about how it DOES work and not how you WANT it to work.

Beyond the way it's written it is also important to enforce this for the same reason that it takes one Action to change your grip on an item. If you want to argue that changing your grip on something you're already holding takes MORE time and Actions than it would take + hold/grip something that is handed to you by another Creature then... well, I'm afraid that's not a discussion I'd even be wiling to humor.

This is cut and dry folks, we actually have already had I think.. three(?) threads on the topic that all came up with this same answer. You don't get to take or give something to another Character without each participant spending an action.

cool story.

how about some rules to back them up.

because i have plenty of rules of you not being able to take actions when it's not your turn.
i also have plenty of rules tha turns are actually taken in sequence and are not, as you claim,. "simultaneously". A creature that you kill is not going to take its turn that round just because "everything happens simultaneously!".

the rules say:

use 1 action to give.
OR
use 1 action to take.

I even quoted the rules AND bolded the "or" in tehm that you somehow disregarded.

full stop. "easy peasy"

it's purely your conjecture that in order for a single item to be passed both those 100% indipendent actions must be taken, and in order for your conjecture to be right we need to disregrad the most core rules that exist about how a turn and a round actually plays.

so, no.

THOSE are the "rules". If you don't like them, houserule whatever you want.

---

to get more technical, the rules are written to be permissive. That means that the rules need to say that you can do something to do it.

In this case we have this exact action spelled out:
"spend 1 Interact action to take something from a willing ally".

in the above sentence the actual rule terms are "1 action, interact, willing, ally". Each of those words means something VERY specific in the language of PF2.

And none of them means "that has also spent an action to give said item to you".

Here's is the actual rule (again):

Quote:

Pass an item to or take an item from a willing creature

But wait! there's a clarification in the actual rule text. Maybe it says something more there:

Clarification:

Quote:

A creature must have a hand free for someone to pass an item to them, and they might then need to change their grip if they receive an item requiring two hands to wield or use.

Weird... that doesnt say that someone else must also spend his actions...

Makes you wonder, if they went to all this trouble to spell out, in a seperate clarification, that "you need to have a free hand to take an item" then surely, if there was a hiddeen requirement of "oh, btw, the other guy must also spend an action" then there would have said so somewhere? Right?

[Cordell Kintner]

Thoughtful Gift uses only one action to pass an item, the benefit of it being a spell is the range. I agree that someone somewhere has to at least use one interact action to pass something. It's more likely to be the one grabbing it, since the original owner would need to spend actions taking it out and probably moving.

I also allow people spending actions grabbing worn items from a willing creature, as if they were wearing the item. They have to be adjacent of course. Basically they reach into the allies pocket (with consent) to grab an item within easy reach, like a potion or weapon.

[Castilliano]

It shouldn't take more actions to pick an item out of an expectant ally's hand than it does from a table or off the ground. It seems silly to say that it's easier to drop an item you're holding than to loosen your grip enough so that a friend can take it.

[BishopMcQ]

So could a pair of fighters (or more) go Strike, Stride away from monster, Interact to toss the sword to the next one?

Not a scene that I could see coming up with any frequency, but the party that is caught unaware and unarmed. Monk beats down a brigand, tosses a sword to the fighter. The fighter and paladin take turns attacking in a steady retreat.

[Cordell Kintner]

We're talking grabbing an item from an ally's hand, not throwing items to allies to catch.

I would say, to catch an item an ally is tossing to you you would need to use a reaction and make a reflex save, otherwise it falls to the ground. Even then, catching a sword mid air has other issues...