How does one use Assassinate? Isn't it essentially impossible to both be in combat and be Unnoticed?
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How does one use Assassinate? Isn't it essentially impossible to both be in combat and be Unnoticed?
A PC with this feat would have to remain unnoticed as combat starts, which is difficult but not impossible.
I suppose they would have to be using Avoid Notice in exploration mode beforehand. I would rule once they Assassinate someone, all other foes know there's something there, and the Assassin PC would become Undetected.
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Avoid Notice as your Exploration activity.
Roll high enough on your Initiative Stealth check that they don't notice you immediately (Beat their Perception DC).
Mark your target in the first round (presumably making a stealth check to stay unnoticed while doing so) or before combat starts.
Using a ranged attack with Assassinate makes it relatively 'easy' to pull off.
If you want to use a melee attack, you'll need something that lets you stay unnoticed in melee (Legendary Sneak, Very Very Sneaky, Invisibility, very friendly terrain, etc.) until you attack.
Once you've attacked, you can't use assassinate in that fight as you can't become 'unnoticed' again: It's a strictly 'once per encounter at best' option.
Assassin abilities aren't really intended for the traditional Dungeon Crawl: Any murder-hobo can handle that, but it takes a professional to sneak into an enemy fortress, kill their leader, and sneak out without anyone noticing anything until it is too late...
I've heard it said in more than a few places that combatants start combat as undetected, at best. Also, invisibility can't make someone unnoticed, only undetected.
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You are in combat as unnoticed when the target is not yet in combat.
This is one of these things that only operates in the liminal space between exploration mode and encounter mode. As in- encounter mode doesn't just start when people start stabbing each other, it starts when it becomes important to track actions on a round-by-round basis.
Like if you're trying to infiltrate an estate undetected by the guard patrols, you might want to do the whole thing in encounter mode just to keep track of where the guards are on their routes.
But anybody aware enough of danger to "be participating in combat" would be extremely difficult to assassinate.
Not once in my 25+ years of roleplaying have I seen one side of an encounter roll initiative while the other side did not.
Liminal space between? Sorry, I don't believe in such things. You're either in Encounter mode, Exploration mode, or Downtime mode. There's no in between or other made up modes of play in this edition. Not without houserules.
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Not once in my 25+ years of roleplaying have I seen one side of an encounter roll initiative while the other side did not.
Liminal space between? Sorry, I don't believe in such things. You're either in Encounter mode, Exploration mode, or Downtime mode. There's no in between or other made up modes of play in this edition. Not without houserules.
Changing from Exploration Mode to Encounter Mode doesn't mean an Unnoticed condition drops to Undetected, although detecting an Unnoticed creature in Exploration Mode could start a fight.
NPCs shouldn't automatically know an undetected creature is present just because the GM rolled initiative for them.
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"Encounter Mode" is not synonymous with "in combat." Encounter Mode is simply when "every action counts."
The scene could be set on a ship that is going down quickly, or a building that is on fire and collapsing- this is a situation in which every second counts, after all. Two people could be in completely different parts of the sinking ship or burning building, and thus unaware of each other, even though they each have an initiative value.
Switching from exploration mode to encounter mode gives everyone an initiative value, but doesn't necessarily make everyone aware of each other (even if "combat" does).
Thank you everyone, especially Zergor, for the GMG rules reference.
So it seems to be unnoticed during Encounter mode, you essentially need to be undetected AND win initiative.
Seems I will be investing in Incredible Initiative as well. :)
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Thank you everyone, especially Zergor, for the GMG rules reference.
So it seems to be unnoticed during Encounter mode, you essentially need to be undetected AND win initiative.
Seems I will be investing in Incredible Initiative as well. :)
You only change form Unnoticed to Undetected if you fail to beat your foes Perception DC with your Stealth initiative roll.
If your Stealth Initiative roll does beat their Perception DC, you remain Unnoticed.
Thank you everyone, especially Zergor, for the GMG rules reference.
So it seems to be unnoticed during Encounter mode, you essentially need to be undetected AND win initiative.
Seems I will be investing in Incredible Initiative as well. :)
You only change form Unnoticed to Undetected if you fail to beat your foes Perception DC with your Stealth initiative roll.
If your Stealth Initiative roll does beat their Perception DC, you remain Unnoticed.
You sure about that? You're probably correct, but I've not seen any RAW evidence for it yet.
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You would actually become hidden if you fail, and detected if you crit fail. The only reason you would become undetected instead of unnoticed is if the enemy had any reason to suspect that someone else could be hiding. If your team ambushed an enemy, and you were off hiding while 4 of your teammates attacked head on, there's a good chance you are unnoticed. If one of your teammates called to someone the enemy couldn't see, then you would probably become undetected.
Undetected and Unnoticed are functionally the same, the only difference is if the enemy knows you are in the area or not.
Undetected and Unnoticed are functionally the same, the only difference is if the enemy knows you are in the area or not.
And abilities like assassinate cease to exist for you...
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Undetected and Unnoticed are functionally the same, the only difference is if the enemy knows you are in the area or not.And abilities like assassinate cease to exist for you...
If your target does not know you're present(you're Unnoticed), then you can Assassinate them.
If your target can't see you, doesn't know your location, but does know you're present(you're Undetected), then you can't Assassinate them.
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Undetected and Unnoticed are functionally the same, the only difference is if the enemy knows you are in the area or not.And abilities like assassinate cease to exist for you...
Yes, I was trying to explain that it's not an increased level of stealth, but a kind of side condition. If you are Unnoticed you are Undetected. If you are Undetected you aren't necessarily Unnoticed.
Assassinate is an action to start combat, not to use during combat. And if you're lucky enough you can avoid combat all together with it.