Several monsters, such as daemons, are immune to death effects. The section on immunity in the CRB states that:
"If you have immunity to effects with a certain trait (such as death effects, poison, or disease) you are unaffected by any effect with that trait".
How I understand things:
- Any effect with the "Death" trait is a "death effect"
- If you're immune to death effects, and someone casts a spell on you that has the death trait, you are completely unaffected by the spell
The second point above is what confuses me. Let's say a 12th-level spellcaster casts a 6th level Phantasmal Killer spell on a Cacodaemon (Harvester Daemon).
- Phantasmal Killer has the Death trait
- This level 1 monster is immune to death effects
So does the spell have zero effect? Or does the spell play out as normal, only the daemon cannot be killed by the insta-death if it critically fails its Will and Fortitude saves? What if the resulting damage from failing those two saves is enough to kill the daemon in a single blow?
Any help would be appreciated.
Looking at Phantasmal Killer, the text of the spell doesn't say anything to suggest that the Death train only applies to one part of it. That means the damage is a Death effect, just like it is for, say, Vampiric Touch. So isthe frightened condition.
So nothing at all happens to the daemon.
Now, if the spell specified that the instant death that might occur was a Death effect, in the same way that the spell applies Incapacitating to only that single effect, then the daemon would be subject to the rest of it.
As written the daemon is simply immune the the spell.
I feel like this could potentially lead to some unfun moments for players.
Let's say a level 15 character uses Scare to Death (a feat with the death effect) on the same level 1 daemon. RAW, nothing happens. The kicker here is that the daemon is immune to this feat, and does not become frightened at all, regardless of rolls.
Personally, I may use a house rule so that daemons are just immune to the insta-kill part of spells, feats, etc, instead of the entire ability. For example, the daemon could still be frightened, but could not be killed outright by this feat. Thoughts?
Personally, I think those kinds of surprises make the game more interesting. Also, characters can completely make checks to identify a monster and their immunities.
In my opinion, knowing that all daemons are immune to death effects is something that you should generically know about daemons and should only require that you successfully identify the creature, so that you know it's a daemon.
It's more generous for information on creatures than the actual rules, but I think it's a better path.
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I feel like this could potentially lead to some unfun moments for players.
Let's say a level 15 character uses Scare to Death (a feat with the death effect) on the same level 1 daemon. RAW, nothing happens. The kicker here is that the daemon is immune to this feat, and does not become frightened at all, regardless of rolls.
Personally, I may use a house rule so that daemons are just immune to the insta-kill part of spells, feats, etc, instead of the entire ability. For example, the daemon could still be frightened, but could not be killed outright by this feat. Thoughts?
"Unfun" RAW Example:
Level 15 player attempts Scare to Death on a level 1 daemon. Nothing happens, even with a nat 20.
Same level 15 player attempts Demoralize on the same daemon, rolls an average roll (say a 10). The monster is now frightened 2.
This just seems really weird to me.
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If you're level 15 vs a level 1 creature, you would likely just make it dead some other way, like with a battle axe.
An easier comparison is Vampiric Touch. It's a 3rd level spell that only does damage but has the Death trait. One of the lowest effects with the Death Trait, and something way more likely to be used against Cacodaemons.
And honestly, being physical embodiments of death, it makes sense that they would be immune to it.
Another example, this "unfun" scenario, a level 15 pc casts an 8th level fireball at a level 1 fire elemental. Immunity to fire, no effect. Immunities exsist everywhere. They should roll recall knowledge and ask for immunities before going murderhobo.