Greetings,
Wonder if the good people here on the forums could help explain how this works. We have a barbarian who is interested in getting Celebrity Dedication so he can do some rage cycling with Never Tire.
He would like to Rage, furious finish, never tire, and second wind to rage again. What happens after he does this, the next round could he Rage, Attack, Furious Finish? Then third round repeat?
Does one NEED second wind here if you have Never Tire? I'm a bit confused how this all works.
Rage
Single Action
BarbarianConcentrateEmotionMental
Source Core Rulebook pg. 84 1.1
Requirements You aren’t fatigued or raging.
You tap into your inner fury and begin raging. You gain a number of temporary Hit Points equal to your level plus your Constitution modifier. This frenzy lasts for 1 minute, until there are no enemies you can perceive, or until you fall unconscious, whichever comes first. You can’t voluntarily stop raging. While you are raging:
You deal 2 additional damage with melee weapons and unarmed attacks. This additional damage is halved if your weapon or unarmed attack is agile.
You take a –1 penalty to AC.
You can’t use actions with the concentrate trait unless they also have the rage trait. You can Seek while raging.
After you stop raging, you lose any remaining temporary Hit Points from Rage, and you can’t Rage again for 1 minute
So you start with 2 limitations.
1. You can't be fatigued.2. It has to have been at least 1 minute since you last raged.
Never Tire only addresses the fatigue, so it would not allow you to start raging again on your next turn without second wind.
Second WindFeat 2
Barbarian
Source Core Rulebook pg. 89 1.1
You can enter a second rage, but afterward you need to catch your breath. You can Rage without waiting for 1 minute after the previous Rage (or 1 round, with quick rage), but when you end this second Rage, you’re fatigued until you rest for 10 minutes.
Second wind, as an addition, could be read to allow cycling, or not, depending on how load-bearing you think that bold sentence is. It can definitely also be read to say that means second rage only, not third, fourth, etc, from readings that I've seen.
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Thanks for pointing it out.
Second Wind removes the time limit
Never Tire solves the fatigue issue
You need both. But it does work repeatedly if you assume that "Second" in Second Rage is a relative term not an absolute one. Which IMHO is reasonable. Rules are always relative to the specific instance of their implementation.
But only while all the conditions are met and there is a time limit of 1 minute in Never Tire that you can't remove.
I don't see it as broken. It is very action intensive.
I'm not that sure. Never Tire doesn't remove fatigue, only delays it. I'm not sure how well the delaying would be working if you have two or three of them stacked up in a holding pattern. I can't say how often a battle will go ten rounds after someone does a Furious Finish, but at that point you're tired and Never Tire is used up.
(You've also spent four feats: Second Wind, Celebrity Dedication, Furious Finish, and Never Tire. If all of this does work it doesn't come online until level EIGHT, since three of these are level two feats and Never Tire's a level four.)
There are no rules for stacking fatigue. You either are or you aren't.
The Never Tire can fire again....
Its a very expensive way to do a power attack.
It is accurate that if you're still fighting 10 rounds later (which is unusual, but still possible), you will get hit with the initial delayed fatigue, and never tire won't be able to help you.