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Hey all, so this next weekend, (not Halloween weekend) my players in one of my in person games will likely come to a head against a tribal war leader that has been raiding the countryside for over a month, and has decimated the local noble's army. It is the climatic battle to the story arc they have been dealing with since level 6, and so I wanted to make it difficult, and rewarding.
The party is level 11, with the following- (we are using feat tax rules)
Magus (blade bound)- 11- focused on damage
Fighter10,brawler 1- "Iron Caster" dwarf, focused on AC, saves, and decent damage
Wizard (divination)- 11- buffs and utility, some control via summons/terrain manipulation. rarely makes use of debuffs.
Unrogue(eldritch Scoundrel) 4/ arcane trickster 7 (made use of accomplished sneak attacker feat) focused on more out of combat things, but decent damage and fairly versatile in combat.
Cleric 11- Sword&shield cleric, focused on general utility, healing, and largely being a "jack of all trades" decent frontliner, decent caster, decent skills.
Inquisitor 6, gunslinger 5- primary ranged damage dealer.
Bard 10/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1- support and damage.
The encounter will, if things go well, will take place out the outskirts of a town (or within the town, if things don't go well for the PCs). Which the PCs have selected to make a stand at with those they have rallied behind them from the remnants of the army, local militias and guards, and others who have come to defend their homes.
The encounter consists of (all humans)
Barbarian warlord (level 14, Titan mauler barbarian)
Barbarian Shaman (level 11 shaman)
Barbarian honor guard x2 (level 9 SnS Fighter)
Barbarian Chosen B (level 9 2handed barbarian)
Barbarian wayfinder (level 9 Archer Ranger)
I know each of the honor guard will have magic shields and armor, the chosen will have a magical weapon, armor, and a magical item. The wayfinder uses a magical bow and a few magical trinkets.
Everyone but the warlord uses heroic NPC arrays, the warlord I gave a PC equivalent point buy (30). The following are his stats-
Str: 17 (26) (+2, +1+1+1, +4) (32 while raging)
Dex: 14
Con: 16 (20) (+4)(28 while raging)
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 08
HP: 231 (287) both Players and Enemies gain full HD on odd levels(HD for monsters), half+1 on even.
DR3/- (DR10/adamatine when buffed)
Resist lightning/fire 20 when buffed
AC: 23(21)- 29(27) when buffed.
Trait- Second Chance
His feats-
Power attack, Reckless rage, raging vitality, toughness, vital strike, Improved Vital strike, Cornugon smash, Hurtful, Furious Focus, dodge
Rage Powers-
Auspicious Mark
Superstitious
Renewed Vigor
Eater of Magic
Regenerative Vigor
Deathless Frenzy
Mighty Swing
Magical gear he has-
A Large, +2 impact, flaming, Adamantine butchering Axe (story wise, he had it forged by a fire giant)
a Belt of physical might str/con (+4) (Made for him by his shaman), a cloak of resistance +2 (taken from a subdued chief), ring of protection (+2)(taken from another chief), a +1 mithril breastplate (taken from the local noble's son after defeating and killing him and his army)
He will be buffed by his shaman advisor (unless the party does something sneaky, which, is possible. However, the LG dwarf and honorable cleric often are against the remaining members plotting)
His attack action while raging (without the shamans buffs) looks like this-
total Attack bonus- ~+27 with 10ft reach
Standard action attack vital strike, power attack(primary):
+25 to hit
Damage: 24d6+35
followed by (on successful hit and intimidate):
+20 to hit
Damage: 8d6+35
Buffs the Shaman will give the warlord(and some to the chosen and honor guard)-
Resist Energy (20) (lightning+fire) (to entire group)
Barkskin (+4 ac)
Stoneskin
Magic Vestment (+3)
Magic Weapon Greater (+3)
Fly
Banishing Blade (first cast in fight, just for the fun of it)
Bulls Strength and Bears Endurance (Chosen only)
For their other spells, they focus on healing/control, allowing the warlord to do battle as he wishes, and defeating those enemies largely through himself or with the blessings of the gods and spirits.
Spells like- Entangle, cure X wounds, Fog spells, a summon here or there maybe, true sight, hold person etc. They prioritize keeping the warlord alive/well (break enchantment/spell protection), controlling the field, and focusing on enemy caster threats.
The "honor guard" will keep some of the enemies preoccupied so the Warlord does not get surrounded and staying near the Warlord. I forsee them having ACs near the 24-29 mark. They focus on heavy armor, shields etc. They don't have the best attack or damage.
The Chosen seeks out whoever he thinks is a worthy fight and focuses on them. A high damage threat that focuses one PC at a time. ~+18 to hit, with ~33 damage a hit. Very low AC however due to him making use of reckless abandon rage power.
The wayfinder (ranger) will target arcane casters and is the most tactically flexible of the non-boss enemies. Full attacking archer, another high damage threat that applies pressure onto the arcane casters.
The boon that the PCs have here, is they know a fair bit about the Warlord and his abilities. Thanks both to the legends of his great feats forming around the Barbarian Warlord and the divination wizard's detective work. The one thing they won't know about is the wayfinder, and just how strong the warlord is. Though, they may be overestimating his strength at this time due to the rumors spreading of his feats.
So, did I go a bit too overboard? Or do you think this fight will be too easy for the party? If the former, how would you go about toning it down? If the latter, what do you think I should do to amp it up? I want this fight to be extremely scary for the PCs, as I would hate for the months long build up and tension to break with something that the party deals with too easily. I also want a lot of that threat to be centered on the Warlord.
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I'm guessing your game is no where close to the normal numbers that pathfinder is designed around, so I have no idea.
What I can say is you made a CR13-14 boss that deals CR20 damage. If this game was at normal assumed power levels, then he is hitting a standard level 11 PC on 2s, a high AC PC on 6s, and one-shoting any PC on an average roll except a raging barbarian (who is still one shot on an above average roll).
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I actually find that funny, as the boss is something a player can make in unmodified pathfinder rules with a 25pt buy. More or less
the only differences would be about 25% less hp(since "official" PFS goes half HD+1 at all levels save 1st)
and one less feat I think. (with power attack not being "free")
That said, I'd wager with a 30pt buy and a little above average WBL the party isn't "standard assumed power".
I'll list what I remember off the top of my head the general AC/HP/damage of the players. I'll be listing ranges, as they fluctuate fairly often due to spells and the like. HP will be listed as base without any buffs. I'm fairly sure I have the right HP.
-Magus AC ranges between 23-30 depending on buffs, has a to hit of ~19-24 depending on buffs, with a damage of ~1d6+13 per hit without using spells such as shocking grasp or power attack and the ability to target touch. Also makes use of Mirror image for defense.
HP is: 123
Fighter- AC stays stable ~36~40 range IIRC depending. His damage sits ~1d10+12 per attack with a to hit of ~22-24 IIRC without power attack.
HP is: 167
Wizard- doesn't make use of AC save mage armor and shield on occasion. Prefers spells like blur, mirror image, etc.
HP: 100
Arcane trickster- two-hands an elven curved blade. AC varies between 24-30 depending on buffs. Damage is ~1d10+15+Sneak attack per attack with a to hit ~19-23 depending. Without power attack.
HP is: 117
Cleric- This one varies so much I can't really say, if he gets a chance to prepare and pre-buff, he is rather terrifying. If not, he isn't much of a martial threat.
HP: 128
Gunslinger/inquisitor- AC ~23-25, with damage of ~1d12+14 per hit (with judgment active) with a to hit of ~20-26 (depending on buffs/bane/etc) vs touch ac at 100ft without deadly aim.
HP: 138
The Bard/swashbuckler AC ranges from ~25-29, with a damage of ~1d4+10 per hit without piranha strike. Their to hit is ~19-22 without piranha strike. Makes use of blur and mirror image.
HP: 99
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So you wrote +25 to hit, Damage: 24d6+35. So lets see, yeah that hits most of your pcs on 2s, except the fighter who has an AC 10-15 higher then the rest of the party. The boss does 59-179, averaging 119. Easily one shot kills most of your party, has to roll above average to one shot the fighter. Personally I'd go with a build that does more attacks and less damage so you have the option of splitting them up and not just killing players with a single dice roll.
If we look at challenge ratings:
Now, you are using PC class enemies, so their supposed CR is wildly inaccurate, but you are building them super optimized with inflated stats so they aren't way under CR like usual. Assuming normal npc CR calculation, this fight is a large 7 player level 11 party versus:
A level 14 pc class npc with high stats and above normal npc wealth, CR14
No details about the others, but I'm assuming similar treatment so one CR11, and 4 @ CR9. That's 76,800xp. Now your party is 75% larger than the assumed 4 and you want an epic boss fight of level+3. PCs are level 11+3 is 14 which equals 38,400xp, times 1.75 to account for the extra players is a budget of 67,200xp to make that an epic challenge fight. So by the math, you are one CR10 to much.
Personally, I'd aim for something like 6 CR8s, 2 CR9s, and one CR13.
That being said, I don't know you or your players. Maybe you're all the epic hardcore challenge crowd. This looks like exactly the sort of encounter I would have written when I was 17, where a boss fight meant that 1-3 pcs would die in the encounter and the distinct possibility of a tpk. These days though, I'd walk away from a table that played like that.
If you know your players' characters and the enemy, you could always do a solo trial run to get a feel for what may happen.
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thanks for the input and the math. I hadn't checked that atm, as I largely go with my gut on encounters these days. That aside, I was fairly close. I was already considering dropping one of the two honor guards. So, that seems a good bet to do Or, perhaps lower the CR of the honor guard to 4 or 5 and have three of them.
As far as the group, perhaps I should have prefaced this-
yes, This group is my "challenge" crowd. They tend towards the combat side of the game and prefer testing build limits with challenging and deadly encounters. Which is fine by me, as I have a more RP heavy IRL group (1 player attends both games with me) and this group gives me a reason to flex some muscles when it comes to encounters and lets me do semi-trial test runs of build ideas. In other words, the players enjoy being pushed to the edge and perhaps even past it, and I get to have some fun coming up with encounters I'd normally deem to deadly for most games.
The setting is made up so introducing new characters is easier that normal, and a few of the characters mentioned have been killed once before. (They were brought back through resurrection "side quests") One of which was the gunslinger/inquisitor who started taking inquisitor levels after being revived by his new deity.
So far, a TPK has not occurred, but I do agree the encounter could be potentially very deadly. I may dial back a little bit on the damage, perhaps removing the impact from the weapon, but the entire premise up to this point in the setting is that the Warlord is renowned for finishing his enemies with a single devastating blow. One rumor abounds with how he shattered the gate of one settlement with one blow.
That aside, I do always try to make sure there is a decent chance of the PC's coming out on top. For this encounter however, I was looking in the 30-40% range in a straight up mosh-pit style fight(standing toe to toe and smashing faces).