So, I had a go at building a tiefling monk for Pathfinder 2E and I’m looking for a little feedback/some ideas regarding feat progression. I have never played any games of 2E as of yet.
The build came about from an idea and is intended for a role play heavy campaign (War for the crown), and thus you’ll see some flavor-induced feats you might not have otherwise reccomended. I’m not married to any particular monk concept, but I know I want the following.
1. An unarmed character that fights with their bare hands. No monastic weaponry. I’ve considered an animal spirit barbarian, but…
2. A mobile/dodging/jumping character. Not really keen on the sluggish mountain stance.
- Cassandra Cain, X-23 and eventually Catra from the new She-ra Cartoon are the biggest character influences. Prioritizing High AC seems like a worthy investment considereng the new crit system. Plus, who doesn’t love survivability? This is why I currently have my button on the monk over the barbarian. Crane stance, though limited to a strike with a low damage dice, seems the most fitting.
3. The ability to use the environment/harrass/impairing foes
- This one isn’t so much about what I want, as it is about finding a niche that synergizes well with the rest of the party. The party will feature a fighter and possibly a warpriest or champion. Maybe it will be okay if I prioritize ways to dibilitate foes over damage output and otherwise be a very mobile tank? Maybe use the class skills that bypass resistance to get in some debuffs?
The GM has allowed us three ancestry feats at lvl 1 to distinguish the ancestries more. We missed some of the flavor from 1e.
Str: 18 Dex: 16 Con: 12 Int: 10 Wis: 10 Cha: 12
Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Lore (Mercantile, Legal), Performance (Vielle), Society, Stealth, (Intimidation + Religion if I go for Fiendish Lore)
Background: Onyx Trader (Fluff)
Item prioritization: Handwraps, Armor Runes
Skill prioritization: Athletics, Acrobatics
1. Crance Stance, Ki Rush*, Flurry of Blows, Multilingual, Lie To me
Ancestry: Hellspawn, Natural Ambition*, Fiendish Eyes (Darkvision). (Might go for lore (Intimidation, Religion as skills) or Nimble Hooves (+ movement))
2. Stunning Fist, Quick Jump (meshes well with crane stance)
3. Toughness, +10 feet, Mystic Strikes
4. Wholeness of Body (LOVE the idea of healing myself), Rapid Mantel
5. + Acrobatics, Ability Boost (Str 19, Dex 18, Con 14, Wis or Cha), Nimble Hooves (+5 Feet), Alertness, Expert Strikes
6. Crane Flutter, Powerful Leap/Cat’s fall (not sure about the skill feats from here on)
7. Path: Boost Will saves, Canny Acumen: Boost Fortitude
8. Class: Maybe something to get more focus?, Skill: Wall Jump?
9. Devil Magic (Invisibility and Misdirection once per day sounds good both in and out of combat)
As I’m gradually progressing throughout the build, I’m less certain on what to go for. I think I have the mobility covered. Run/jump out of harms way (or get all the way up to the pesky mage) in order to stun/shove/trip them
Alternate idea
Str: 18 Dex: 16 Con: 12 Int: 10 Wis: 8 Cha: 14
Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Lore (Mercantile, Legal), Performance (Vielle), Society, Stealth, Intimidation, Religion
Background: Onyx Trader (Fluff)
Item prioritization: Handwraps, Armor Runes
Skill prioritization: Athletics, Acrobatics
1. Crance Stance, Flurry of Blows, Multilingual, Lie To me, Darkvision, Land on your feet
Ancestry: Hellspawn, Nimble Hooves (+5 feet)/Catfolk’s Luck (reroll ref saves 1/day), Fiendish Lore
2. Student of Perfection dedication (Early athletics boost, Ki strike), Rapid Mantel
3. Toughness, +10 feet, Mystic Strikes
4. Wholeness of Body, Quick Jump
5. + Acrobatics, Ability Boost (Str 19, Dex 18, Con 14, Wis or Cha), , Alertness, Expert Strikes
6. Crane Flutter, Powerful Leap?
7. Path: Boost Will saves, Canny Acumen: Boost Fortitude
8. Class: Maybe something to get more focus?, Skill: Wall Jump? Kip up?
9. Devil Magic (Invisibility and Misdirection once per day sounds good both in and out of combat)
«Loses» StunningFist, but unlocks a lot of utility – Might work better with a different stance/focus on feinting or initimidation.
Two minor things ('cause I'm not much of a build critic):
Canny Acumen only brings the save (or Perception) you pick up to Expert; it does eventually pump it to Master, but not until 17th level. Since monks start with all Expert saves, I wouldn't get this at 7th. Get it for your remaining Expert save at/around 17th.
Ki spells depend on your Wisdom to set their impact, but this doesn't matter for most of them. Wholeness of Body is an exception. While it will heal your HP no problem, if you want to use it to cure yourself of poison or disease you need to make a counteract check, which for you will be Wisdom-based. So relying on WoB with Wis 8-10 isn't so great.
Two minor things ('cause I'm not much of a build critic):
Canny Acumen only brings the save (or Perception) you pick up to Expert; it does eventually pump it to Master, but not until 17th level. Since monks start with all Expert saves, I wouldn't get this at 7th. Get it for your remaining Expert save at/around 17th.
Ki spells depend on your Wisdom to set their impact, but this doesn't matter for most of them. Wholeness of Body is an exception. While it will heal your HP no problem, if you want to use it to cure yourself of poison or disease you need to make a counteract check, which for you will be Wisdom-based. So relying on WoB with Wis 8-10 isn't so great.
Wow, I wasn't expecting a reply this soon, and from the looks of it you gave both my ideas a worthy read. Thank you very much!
I missed those two rules completely. Wasn't even aware that "counteracting" referred to an action - I thought it was only flavor and that you could expend a focus point and effectively rid yourself of a poison. Freeing up a feat slot at 7 is always something. A little bit of a bummer regarding status healing, all though I was considering abandoning the ki feats all-together, in favor of something that could boost combat versatility. I might go for stand still at 4 and an additional general feat at 1 if I stick with Human.
Tiger Stance seems more fitting for X-23 or Catra, innit?
Why 18 Str and 16 Dex? For Crane Stance id go 16 Str 18 Dex. Attack bonus stays the same but 1 lower damage traded for 1 more AC. I personally like Strenght Monk but if you go that route id go Dragon Stance or Gorilla Stance.
Mainly so that Athletics checks stay at their peak. Stunning strike DC, Combat maneuvers, high jumps, Climbing.
I haven't really considered Gorilla, nor Dragon Stance yet. I kind of steered away from the non-finessable stances. I do like how Gorilla stance works well with grappling and climbing. And Dragon stance capitalizes off of intimidation which could be used with the catfolk build.
Tiger Stance seems more fitting for X-23 or Catra, innit?
Indeed! I was going for something ruthless and slashy at first (given that natural attacks still aren't too easy to implement) - All though, I wouldn't mind going for a build that plays more to the other strengths of the monk. They are easily "out-damaged" by the other martial classes, but they can get pretty defensive (read: Catra's catlike dodging) and mobile, which means they can move around spreading havoc through combat maneuvers and stunning.
The tiger stance and wolf stance might be substitutes for the crane stance. I do love the high ac, lvl 6 reaction and mobility it affords me, though.
Mainly so that Athletics checks stay at their peak. Stunning strike DC, Combat maneuvers, high jumps, Climbing.
I haven't really considered Gorilla, nor Dragon Stance yet. I kind of steered away from the non-finessable stances.
But why steer away from the non finessable stance if you then dont use finesse.
Stunning strike DC doesnt key off strenght it keys off your key ability score which you can use Dex for. For the other stuff id Value the +1 AC more than a +1 in those but thats up to you.
I think I may have phrased that poorly. I didn't go for the finesse stances for the sake of finesse, rather that the non-finessable ones didn't seem to provide much beyond damage. But you have a point. It would probably be smart to capitalize off of 18 DEX if I am to use a finesse-able stance. Hit more and be harder to hit and retain stunning fist DC. It could work with a defensive style like Crane Stance.
Gorilla Stance/Dragon Stance could be good for a Strength-focused catfolk which would utilize the relatively high Charisma for intimidation. Gorilla Stance could also be built as a grappler which would give more utility.
Sorry about double-posting/bumping, but I've taken some time to re-evaluate these builds. Same homebrew-rules about getting three ancestry feats applies.
This is for War for the Crown, a campaign where I anticipate there will be equally important social encounters as there will be combat encounters. I'm basically asking if there are ways to build the same concept and get even more profit.
I'm trying to play to the monk's strength of mobility to impede enemies. Stunning and combat maneuvers seems like a good option to disrupt and rob enemies of their action economy. I'm okay with sacrificing some damage for this as the team will feature a fighter, a champion, and a sorcerer.
Incidentally, we'll be starting at lvl 2 - Any ideas for what equipment I should go for? 1 lvl 1 item/20 GP or 30 GP. Not enough for the handwraps. Thought about pooling it all into explorer's clothing and healing potions.
Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Int: 10 Wis: 8 Cha: 14
Ancestry: Hellspawn (skills + general feat + Prereq), Fiendish Lore (skills), Nimble Hooves (+5 move)
1 Crane Stance, Land on your Feet, Darkvision, Multilingual, Lie to me
2 Stunning Fist, Quick Jump
3 Toughness
4 Rapid Mantel, Stand Still or Crushing Grab
5 Springing Leaper (double/triple jumping distance)
6 Crane Flutter, Nimble Crawl (?)
7 Path to perfection: Will saves, General Feat: Fast Recovery (?)
8 Abundant Step or Flurry of Maneuvers
9 Devil Magic (Invisibility, Misdirection)
10 Knockback Strike or Whirling Throw
11 Path to perfection: Fortitude, Genereal Feat: ?
12 Sleeper Hold or Stance Savant
The build is fairly mobile, has max AC and can impede enemies with stunning fist, stand still or a slowly onset grapple - though combat maneuvers are slightly better on a strength build. While I feel that I'm getting plenty as far as mobility and surviveability go, I guess it's lacking a bit in the combat versatility department.
Str: 18 Dex: 16 Con: 12 Int: 10 Wis: 8 Cha: 14
Ancestry: Hellspawn (skills + general feat + Prereq), Fiendish Lore (skills), Nimble Hooves (+5 move)
1 Gorilla Stance (Bonus to grapple/Climb), Land on your Feet, Darkvision, Multilingual, Lie to me
2 Stunning Fist, Combat Climber
3 Toughness
4 Assurance (Athletics), Crushing Grab
5 Springing Leaper
6 Flurry of Maneuvers, Powerful Leap (?)
7 Path to perfection: Will saves, General Feat: Fast Recovery/Quick Climber (?)
8 Whirling Throw
9 Devil Magic (Invisibility, Misdirection)
10 Sleeper Hold
11 Path to perfection: Fortitude, Genereal Feat: ?
12 Stance Savant
Loses a bit in the AC department (though runes cap dex bonus at 5, so maybe it's for the better?), Stronger attacks, Not as jumpy, but more climb-y, A lot better at grappling.
The builds are still somewhat unpolished, but I think I'm closer to a build with less superfluous feats.