Sustain a Spell outside the spell range

[voidfoo]

Can you sustain a spell if you're outside the spell's range?

Question came up in last night's game. Wizard cast Summon Construct, then next turn moved away outside the 30ft range.

The 'Sustain a Spell' action doesn't list range as a requirement... but might have missed something.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Doesn't the spell end once you're out of range?

[Asethe]

CRB P304

Quote:

Ranges, Areas, and Targets

Spells with a range can affect targets, create areas, or
make things appear only within that range.

While you're sustaining, you are still creating the spell effect. If you move out of range, the effect ends as you are no longer in range to create it.

[Ubertron_X]

Side question: If you use Reach Spell while casting a sustain spell, do you have increased range for the full duration? (my best guess is yes)

[First World Bard]

Ubertron_X wrote:

Side question: If you use Reach Spell while casting a sustain spell, do you have increased range for the full duration? (my best guess is yes)

Yes. You've extended the range of the spell, and sustaining the spell keeps the same spell going, so nothing changes the range once it's been cast.

[Cordell Kintner]

I feel like you're asking about Summoned Creatures. I would interpret it as, if you're outside the range of the spell you will not be able to sustain the spell, meaning it will end at the end of your turn. With summons, they will not take actions until you sustain the spell. So you could sustain, they move outside 30 feet to attack something, and on the next turn you need to get within 30 feet again to sustain it or it will poof.

[Castilliano]

It'd be a major handicap if Summons couldn't go outside their range (as they have been able to since time immemorial), and a ruling for that would spill over into other sustained spells so I'd have to lean toward sustained working at any range (maybe w/ line of sight or line of effect limits).

I disagree that one is creating the spell effect again. The caster is powering the spell effect or keeping it stable, yes, but not manifesting it anew.

[Cordell Kintner]

I wasn't suggesting leaving the range would end the effect, only that you must be within range to sustain. There isn't actually any range on Sustaining a spell as far as I can tell, but summoning a creature like a Quickling and having it attack an enemy 200 feet away seems pretty strong for a 4th level spell.

[Castilliano]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

I wasn't suggesting leaving the range would end the effect, only that you must be within range to sustain. There isn't actually any range on Sustaining a spell as far as I can tell, but summoning a creature like a Quickling and having it attack an enemy 200 feet away seems pretty strong for a 4th level spell.

The caster having to be within range to sustain within one round hardly rectifies the issue. The creature cannot come back to you until you sustain, so you're going to chase it? One could hardly scout w/ it or send it on quick errands.

Quickling are Uncommon, as is normal for creatures with an ability way beyond their level. So not an option. Even if it were an option, that's +11 attack for 1d6+2 damage (+1d6 w/ sneak) and a poison ineffective at those levels. That would be horrible damage for a 4th level spell. Most casters would do better w/ a bow/crossbow! Or Fireball, 500' range.

And as mentioned, there's no range on Sustain. Adding a limit seems odd given that many sustained spells make a point of how far one can be from the effect. So it seems intentional that the default sustain has no such limit.

[voidfoo]

Castilliano wrote:

Adding a limit seems odd given that many sustained spells make a point of how far one can be from the effect.

That is an interesting point I had not noticed before. Searching the books yielded spells like Dancing Lights and Project Image which mention this. Also there is Magic's Vessel with a range of touch, where it would be odd if you couldn't sustain outside that range.

Archives of Nethys wrote:

Dancing Lights

Range 120 feet; Duration sustained
You create up to four floating lights, no two of which are more than 10 feet apart. Each sheds light like a torch. When you Sustain the Spell, you can move any number of lights up to 60 feet. Each light must remain within 120 feet of you and within 10 feet of all others, or it winks out.

Project Image
Range 30 feet; Duration sustained up to 1 minute
You project an illusory image of yourself. You must stay within range of the image, and if at any point you can't see the image, the spell ends. Whenever you Cast a Spell other than one whose area is an emanation, you can cause the spell effect to originate from either yourself or the image. Because the image is an illusion, it can't benefit from spells, though visual manifestations of the spell appear. The image has the same AC and saves as you. If it is hit by an attack or fails a save, the spell ends.

Magic's Vessel
Range touch; Targets 1 creature; Duration sustained up to 1 minute
A creature becomes a receptacle for pure magical energy sent by your deity. The target gains a +1 status bonus to saving throws. Each time you Cast a Spell from your spell slots, you automatically Sustain this Spell and grant its target resistance to damage from spells until the start of your next turn. This resistance is equal to the level of the spell you cast.

[ExOichoThrow]

I haven't seen anything in the rulebooks that says you have to be within intitial range to sustain a spell. Sustaining a spell is not reactivation, it's sustaining. They would have called it reactivation if that's what it was.

Forbidden ward would become a nearly unusable mess if we played by those rules, as that means you have to stay within 30 feet of two different moving targets.

Summons also aren't particularly strong as it is.

Sustaining is very clear. You can't be fatigued, and you have to have a spell with a sustained duration.

"Choose one spell with a sustained duration you have in effect. The duration of that spell continues until the end of your next turn. "

Range isn't mentioned once.