Healer Bombs and emp or max potions

[bahdirwel]

Just a random thought for a new healing character. How would max or empower potions interact with splash damage. Since splash damage is min damage rolled how would that interact with 50% more damage or any damage that isnt rolled.

Example Healing bombs with empowered maximized cure light wounds potion.

[avr]

An empowered maximized CLW is a 6th level spell so you'll need some trick to make a potion of it. Assuming you can somehow, it will heal (1d8+5)/2 + 13 hit points, which has a minimum of 16. That minimum is the amount healed by the splash.

[Sandslice]

avr wrote:

An empowered maximized CLW is a 6th level spell so you'll need some trick to make a potion of it. Assuming you can somehow, it will heal (1d8+5)/2 + 13 hit points, which has a minimum of 16. That minimum is the amount healed by the splash.

A druidic herbalist can use Special Concoction to create that potion, starting at 11th level.

[MrCharisma]

I think bahdirwel meant empowered OR maximized.

Empowered does +50%, so it would be (1d8+1)×1.5. The minimum would be (1+1)×1.5 = (2)×1.5 = 3.
Empowered Cure Light Wounds would be a 3rd level spell.

I'm not quite sure on Maximize spell, it depends if Maximize treats the roll as the maximum result of a roll or if it replaces the roll with a static number.
- If it treats it as a roll where you rolled the highest then Maximize wouldn't affect the splash damage (minimum number hasn't changed).
- If it repaces the roll with a static number then splash damage would be 9 (1d8+1 maximized is 9).
Maximized Cure Light Wounds would be a 4th level spell, so wouldn't normally be an option for a potion.

If you somehow managed to combine them then the splash damage would depend on how you've ruled Maximize Spell to work with splash damage.
- If it treats it as a roll where you rolled the highest then Maximize wouldn't affect the splash damage (minimum number hasn't changed), so the splash damage would be the same as simply an Empowered CLW (see above).
- If it repaces the roll with a static number then splash damage would go from (1d8+1)×1.5 for just empowered to (8+1)×1.5 for Maximized Empowered. So (8+1)×1.5 = (9)×1.5 = 14 (because you always round down).
Maximized Empowered Cure light wounds would be a 6th level spell and wouldn't normally be an option for a potion.

You can also use extracts instead of potions which makes this much more doable and less expensive than buying empowered potions.

Also, for comparison if you use an Extract of Cure Serious wounds then you've got 3d8+5 at a minimum, so the splash damage starts at 8 and goes up as you level (caps at 3d8+15, which would do 18 splash damage). This is probably a better way to do it if you need more than a 1d8+1 CLW potion for your bomb.

[avr]

I mostly agree with Mr Charisma, but there's a couple of exceptions.

Extracts aren't spells. Applying metamagic feats to them is tricky; there's probably a magic item or feat for it somewhere but by default maximize spell and a CLW extract don't know what to do with each other.

If you're making magic items including potions remember there's a minimum caster level. Empowered CLW is a 3rd level spell and won't be less than caster level 5, in fact CL 7 if an alchemist makes it.

healing bomb wrote:

Creatures in the splash radius are healed for the minimum amount of damage the cure spell is capable of healing.

If you can get a potion or extract of maximized CLW somehow it'll use the full value on the splash.

[MrCharisma]

avr wrote:

Assuming you can somehow, it will heal (1d8+5)/2 + 13 hit points, which has a minimum of 16.

Oh my bad, avr is correct about how Maximized and Empowered stack. You don't multiply them together, you multiply them both by the base.

The easiest way to think of this is that Empowered isn't actually (base) × 1.5, it's (base) +50%. So when you combine Maximized and empowered you get (base maximized) + (50% of base), which becomes (1d8+1 maximized) + (50% of 1d8+1) which is (8+1) + ((1d8+1)/2) = ~12.

Pretty much what avr said (except avr was using +5 instead of +1 for the higher caster level, totally doable but more expensive if using potions).

[MrCharisma]

Oh yeah I didn't factor in minimum CL for the metamagics either ... I'll just show myself out =P

[bahdirwel]

Well the idea was sacrament alchemist using Healing domain mutegen.By being level 6 all cure spells are empowered. So it made my marbles jogging to wonder if when max or empowered or both how would that interact with healing bombs

[MrCharisma]

Yes Empowered would interact with healing bombs, and yes it would increase the minimum (splash) damage healed/dealt.