Can a Cavalier challenge multiple enemies simultaneously? If so, how does that work?

[Obgob]

The description of the "challenge" class ability doesn't specifically state that only one challenge can be active at a time (at higher levels when multiple daily challenges are available). If you can have more than one active, though, how exactly does the AC penalty work?

"The cavalier takes a –2 penalty to his Armor Class, except against attacks made by the target of his challenge."

So let's say my Cavalier is fighting goblins A, B, and C, and issues a challenge to goblin A on the first round and to goblin B on the next round. This Cavalier normally has AC of 20. If goblin C attacked him, would it have to hit an 18 or a 16 (in other words, do the penalties stack)? And if goblin B attacked him, would it have to hit a 20 or an 18 (in other words, does "target of his challenge" mean only the target of this specific challenge, or of any of his challenges)?

This also affects many of the challenge effects granted by orders in confusing and ambiguous ways. And to make matters even worse, RAW doesn't explicitly prohibit the Cavalier from issuing multiple simultaneous challenges to the same individual either (though I think that's pretty obviously not RAI)

[AwesomenessDog]

While I don't think there is anything stopping you from challenging multiple opponents, there is issue of taking a -2 to AC from non-challenge targets. I think this is intended to work that each challenge has a -2 to anyone but the specific creature challenged, so if you have 2 challenges up, you take a -2 AC against attacks from each challenged creature, and a -4 from everything elsel; -4 and -6 if you challenge 3 things; -6 and -8 for 4; etc. It's not too insignificant of a penalty even with just one challenge up for a non-shield build.

[MrCharisma]

I read it as the Cavalier taking no AC penalty against either challanged target, wnd -2 vs everyone else. I think AwesomenessDog is probably right though =P

I'm sure there are other weird things that could affect this (like the order abilities that alter your challenge), so I'd probably go through it all with my GM beforehand just so everyone's on the same page.

[VoodistMonk]

Untyped bonuses and penalties stack, so as long as you are willing to continuously lower to AC to everyone else... use up your challenges, that's what they are there for.

PS. It's 2020... PF1 is the redheaded stepchild that Paizo keeps locked in the attic... asking for a FAQ is pointless.

[Derklord]

"With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects). The same principle applies to penalties—a character taking two or more penalties of the same type applies only the worst one, although most penalties have no type and thus always stack. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source." CRB pg. 208

That's the important rule. The AC penalty of multiple challenges stack. Each challenge has only one target ("the cavalier chooses one target within sight to challenge"), and thus the AC penalty from each challenge applies to all other enemies, no matter if you also challenged them or not.
You can RAW challenge an individual target more than once, but the AC penalty stacks while the damage bonus does not, and most order bonuses also won't stack. Plus, it would make everyone at the table target you with disapproving looks.

[MrCharisma]

Derklord wrote:

Plus, it would make everyone at the table target you with disapproving looks.

And with your AC lowered those looks could kill ;D

[AwesomenessDog]

Derklord wrote:

and most order bonuses also won't stack...

Laughs in Order of the Lion.

[Lemartes]

Derklord wrote:

"...Bonuses without a type always stack, [b]unless they are from the same source.[/b" CRB pg. 208

Isn't it the same source? ie: The Cavalier's Challenge? Or is each separate challenge a new source? Or each enemy a new source or???

I'm just not clear on the source part. :)

[AwesomenessDog]

Penalties don't have an explicit statement that they don't stack from the same source, and the only thing that keeps that from being an issue with spells is that you can't have the same spell active multiple times on the same target at the same time, but this also isn't a spell, its an Ex ability. Otherwise, my example (Order of the Lion Dodge bonus) "should" stack by RAW as it's a dodge bonus and not untyped for the "untyped bonuses from same source don't stack rule", but I would still slap someone with a book if they tried to do this at my table.

[Lemartes]

Dammit I just realized my bold didn't work.

Also double dammit I just realized that I was reading the part about bonuses and not penalties.

Not confused anymore. Doh. :(