| WatersLethe |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Executive Summary:
I propose that the default "9th Level Caster" (or hybrid caster, or reduced caster, or something along those lines) should follow a spell slot chart that places them in between multiclass spell access and full caster spell access. To facilitate their "schtick" they should get exclusive access to a powerful ability (typically a focus spell) that can be custom tuned to give the class their requisite power, and fills in the gaps of their reduced casting.
My suggestion is the spell slot chart at the bottom of the linked spreadsheet, but goes like this:
At first level, you get 2 cantrips (earlier than a multiclass archetype) and no first level spells, but you do get your class's main "schtick" ability. This gives you the opportunity to see how the "schtick" plays and trains you to rely on that ability.
At second level, you get 5 cantrips and 1 first level (better and sooner than a multiclass archetype). Every even level thereafter except for level 20, you increase your max spell level by 1, and you always have 1 max level spell slot, and two of every other level.
Problem Statements:
The perceived problems of the current paradigm are:
1. The current 9th level caster spell slot paradigm encourages multiclassing to achieve a satisfying amount of spells
2. Losing lower level spell slots is unintuitive, and clashes with other expectations of the rules (e.g. Staves)
3. Losing lower level spell slots can make previously acquired spells known feel wasted
4. Losing lower level spell slots makes the character feel less like a caster all day, because casters often use those slots to solve out of combat problems.
5. Having fewer total spell slots than a multiclass character doesn't fulfill the "even mix of martial and caster" fantasy
6. The current 9th level caster spell slot paradigm still offers too much in combat power in the top level slots, restricting freedom of design
Goal:
The goal of a new spell slot paradigm would be to promote a feeling of achieving a spell caster with capabilities in-between a multiclass caster and a full caster, while leaving room for powerful class abilities that make up the difference. Additionally, multiclassing for additional casting should feel optional, rather than encouraged.
Approach:
The differences between a full caster and a multiclass caster are:
1. Delayed access to spell levels (by roughly 3 character levels), resulting in a maximum spell level of 8
2. Feat payment for additional levels (a total of 5 feats)
3. Uneven progression (late start, mid-level lull)
4. Reduced number of slots at each level
However, the differences between a Magus and a full caster are:
1. Reduced number of slots at some levels, but not all and not always
2. No 10th level slots
3. Losing older slots
The large differences between multiclass spell progression and 9th level caster spell progression mean that it is nearly impossible to gauge whether 9th level casters are in fact in between multiclassing and full casters from a "how castery am I?" perspective. Also, the high level spell slots on par with a full caster mean that 9th level casters are part time full casters, which doesn't jive with the expectations of the adventuring day.
I opted to go for a spell progression that at all points is clearly inferior to a full caster and clearly superior to a multiclass caster. The proposed spell progression is shown in the linked spreadsheet, but has the following features:
1. No first level spell slots at level 1, allowing for an impactful focus spell or ability to be introduced as a key part of the class. Starting at three cantrips to not pull too far ahead of multiclass casting
2. Five cantrips from second level on, to facilitate “castery” play, and to stay ahead of multiclass casting
3. Spell progression one level behind full casters (and current magus) to maintain room for a potent class feature
4. Consistently 1 slot of max level spells, and two slots of each lower, for ease of learning and being better than multiclass casting, while being inferior to full casting
5. No 10th level spell slots, even at level 20.
Discussion:
I think the proposed spell slot advancement would be fun to play, but is extremely dependent on having a meaningful, impactful class feature that allows the character to feel effective. For the Magus, this could be an elemental damage focus spell that lasts or gets recharged on a crit, or something along those lines, and works with their spellstrike class feature.
If the spellcasting is still deemed to potent, it is possible to add feat sinks to unlock higher casting, in a similar manner to multiclassing, or to retain lower level spell slots (like Martial Caster feat). However, I don’t believe this is necessary, considering the other features a multiclassed caster can potentially have.
The delayed max level spells does inhibit the use of incapacitation spells on the Magus, however I think that’s a good thing. It helps them feel more like a martial in combat, while the extra lower level spells helps them feel like a caster outside of combat. Their lower level spell slots can be more easily used in a powerful spellstrike without upsetting combat math as much.
| oholoko |
Executive Summary:
I propose that the default "9th Level Caster" (or hybrid caster, or reduced caster, or something along those lines) should follow a spell slot chart that places them in between multiclass spell access and full caster spell access. To facilitate their "schtick" they should get exclusive access to a powerful ability (typically a focus spell) that can be custom tuned to give the class their requisite power, and fills in the gaps of their reduced casting.
My suggestion is the spell slot chart at the bottom of the linked spreadsheet, but goes like this:
At first level, you get 2 cantrips (earlier than a multiclass archetype) and no first level spells, but you do get your class's main "schtick" ability. This gives you the opportunity to see how the "schtick" plays and trains you to rely on that ability.
At second level, you get 5 cantrips and 1 first level (better and sooner than a multiclass archetype). Every even level thereafter except for level 20, you increase your max spell level by 1, and you always have 1 max level spell slot, and two of every other level.
Problem Statements:
The perceived problems of the current paradigm are:
1. The current 9th level caster spell slot paradigm encourages multiclassing to achieve a satisfying amount of spells
2. Losing lower level spell slots is unintuitive, and clashes with other expectations of the rules (e.g. Staves)
3. Losing lower level spell slots can make previously acquired spells known feel wasted
4. Losing lower level spell slots makes the character feel less like a caster all day, because casters often use those slots to solve out of combat problems.
5. Having fewer total spell slots than a multiclass character doesn't fulfill the "even mix of martial and caster" fantasy
6. The current 9th level caster spell slot paradigm still offers too much in combat power in the...
That seems too much like a multiclass IMO.
If that's the solution I would rather the magus and the summoner go the focus point route with multiclass.For now I find that the current one +2(4 expanded with a feat) slots of lower levels(3-4 levels lower than the highest one is a better solution. I really like the new designs and would rather have them than your redesign but yeah that could be an option.
| Lightdroplet |
follow a spell slot chart that places them in between multiclass spell access and full caster spell access
I think that is the really important part. Spllcasting is part of your main thing, so it makes no sense you end up mostly worse at it than someone who just gets spellcasting through an archetype.
While not being able to cast a slot spell at level 1 seems wierd, it could possibly work with cantrips and a great Focus Spell.
Also, it would help diminish the currently excessive power boost Magi get from spellcasting items and/or spellcasting archetypes.
| Ressy |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd be fine with being worse in terms of spells/day, versatility, or spell level than an archetype if they had a class feature that really let them capitalize on cantrip usage.
The way I see it, Magus in 1e was all about splashing a bunch of low-level (1-3) spells constantly in combat while swinging at enemies.
In 2e, scaling low-level attack magics have been replaced by auto-scaling cantrips. We all understand that at higher levels low-level slots are not useful for attack spells, only utility/buff.
So, I think focusing the Magus' combat on the effective use of cantrips would be a good focus. If they can use cantrips better than an actual Wizard or Sorcerer it's fine, because the Wiz or Sorc can be better with spell slots.