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Playing around with a backstory where the character first came to Absalom as a teenager to take the Test, then ended up becoming a Pathfinder. First I assumed they backed down from the Test, but then it occurred to me that maybe they took it, passed it, and got some minor wealth that they subsequently drank/gambled away.
Other than needing a plausible way for them to cross the chasm, are there lore problems with this as backstory for a 1st-level character?
The pathfinder wiki claims "The trials in the Test of the Starstone are set specifically for each individual that takes the Test, depending on their fears, strengths and weaknesses." I figure that means low-level characters can stand a chance too.
(Ideas for something more interesting than 'minor wealth' that they can be given by the Starstone and then squander pregame are also solicited.)
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I mean, maybe they pulled a Peter (the guy from the Bible).
Like Peter when he saw Jesus walking on the water, so solid was their faith that they took several solid steps over the impossibly deep chasm itself, managed to get part way through, and then (like a loony toon) noticed they were walking over a chasm of death , and freaked the heck out and fell... but not quite to their death.
If they'd made it far enough, and there was a small hole on the cathedral side, they might could have grabbed the rock on the other side (), survived, made it in, and climbed their way in/up. Never really succeeded at crossing, exactly, but was "close enough" that they had minor celebrity (one of the only people to be able to pose for portraits by their own micro-shrine in the Shrine of the Failed) which brings its own sort of celebrity... and likely wealth opportunities.
Due to that, they need not even have gained anything from the test directly but this notoriety, and could have gained a small fortune just pressing the flesh of others, posing for portraits, and similar... for about fifteen minutes. Then, flash-in-the-pan, and it's gone fame abandoned them.
Maybe some Razmirans mocked how much better their 'living god' was than this pretender; maybe s/he was obnoxious to one too many people; maybe they got drunk one time and did something embarrassing to the wrong/right person; maybe they confided that they didn't really know what they were doing; maybe Norgorborites hired the Razmirans to assassinate her/his reputation; maybe it's a combination of any or all of the above or something else entirely or whatever.
Much like the prodigal son, her/his wealth dried up overnight, and s/he'd spent without saving. Suddenly reliable friends, which were a dime a dozen, were now "too busy" to have anything to do with the "washed up has-been".
And, you know, there's the chasm itself. Sitting there. Taunting them. Waiting.
"You could try again." it says.
"Maybe you'd actually get all the way across this time." it jeers.
"Maybe you'd even get into the hard part?!?" it mocks.
"Maybe you'd not give up like a little wussy whiny cry-baby who can't do anything and will never amount to anything - just like your father/mother, the drug-addicted/heretical/narcisstic/raging alcoholic ('see, even your lineage is garbage!') always said - and instead will actually, you know, make something of yourself... like, I don't know, earn any actual coin or treasure or anything at all on your own merits, rather than being the insignificant dried up little never-was/weasel you are now." it whispers, kindly.
... or maybe that's her/his own voice.
And the worst part?
Your character could try again. I mean. It's right there. It's not like anything is stopping her/him. And a leap of faith is all it would take. A simple... leap... of faith. No big deal. It's right there.
And your character simply stares at that yawning pit.
And then, like anyone else with PTSD, simply cannot move a foot forward, and turns, their own mind and conscience raging against them and their inexcusable inaction, and they go back to street-sweeping/begging for alms/feeding the pigs (and feeding themselves from the pigs' trough, 'cause they're starving).
Or maybe when s/he landed far-too-low (having seemingly failed the test, but survived), s/he found a single item of some sort. Some sort of lovely bauble on a ledge. Some sort of trinket - a trifle, really, though pretty enough to fetch a pretty penny. Like a broken glass sword or a cracked eye-shaped-shield with wings or a weird (but pretty) gold/green-hat-thing, or a necklace seemingly made of gold coins, or green coat of golden brocade or whatever, I don't know, something minor and not-quite-super-useful like that.
Sold for a lot, though! Maybe even something like a quarter million gold! That's, like, more gold than anyone, ever, in the history of the world!
... of course, the person he sold it to was the Razmirans (or Norgorborans, or whatever evil group would likely rob a podunk kid with zero actual cunning/awareness at the time - look, there's a lot of these groups).
And, of course, that particular trinket was an inestimably valuable magic item. Maybe just a cracked golden orb that s/he couldn't actually use, but still powerful magic. Which s/he found out immediately (or some time thereafter) after having sold it.
And, of course, it may well actually have been her/his personal key to achieving divinity if s/he'd used it.
... at least that was a character idea I'd come up with, once (at least more-or-less in broad strokes).
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the Test of the Starstone... for kids!
Hm.
... for kids!
Hmmmmmmmmmmm...
... for kids!
Hm?
... for KIDS!
... hhhhhhhhm.
... FOR kiiiids!
... hm-hm-hm...
... or, like, I don't know, man, he chased his big bouncy rubber ball he always loved right off the cliff and the crazy death-winds deposited him and his ball safely back on the ledge and he gained minor fame and his ball sold for fat stacks, but now he's never gotten an equal friend, the money's all spent, and he longs for simpler times, muttering "Rosebud" as he stares off into space...
... fwew! I did it! I made it kid-friendly!
I didn't even mention the thing with Calistria saying,-" ANY TIME I WANT, I SAY
(I am a father of two, after all~! :V )
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Totally ROTFLMAO! Great stuff, Tacticslion, both the humor and the non-humor value. You are mean to pregame characters! And I'd forgotten there was a Shrine of the Failed, definitely have to use that.
"For kids" just means the character is a minor; I have them as a teen, probably 16 or so. They're a catfolk from Southern Garund who heard missionaries preaching about Cayden Cailean and thought not "he's neat, I'll worship him!" but "he did what and became a god?" They're not power-hungry and have no moral point to make, they just think becoming a god would be super cool. (Kids, eh?) So, they must be old enough to work their way to Absalom.
Is it known what the bridges are made of? The fact that neglect will make them fall apart implies wood, but I have trouble seeing a mystical bridge between stone and stone arise and not be made of stone.
See, I thought of one method for crossing as a 1st-level (or earlier) character. People say that a rule is "you can't use an existing bridge," but it's not like the rules are written down, they've just been deduced over the millenia. So what if it's actually "you can't cross over an existing bridge"? That would mean you could cross on the underside! But they don't have spider climb available (nor any other magic), so they do it the hard way, with a climbing harness and driving pitons in ahead as they go. Which probably requires going back and forth several times to restock on pitons, as weight considerations forbid bringing them all at once. And then they get to the end and the cathedral's door opens for them, stunning most of the onlookers.
But Tacticslion's stuff makes me think that maybe the door doesn't open and they're a complete loser for putting so much effort into what everyone said couldn't possibly work. Hmm. That decision (if I go with this method) may hinge on whether I have something clever for the Starstone to grant them.
Is it known what the bridges are made of? The fact that neglect will make them fall apart implies wood, but I have trouble seeing a mystical bridge between stone and stone arise and not be made of stone.
... huh. I really thought they were just stone or whatever. But, yeah, that bothers me, now, if they actually have to be maintained.
Maybe something to do with repeated use of stone shape or prayer or something to keep it nice, else it just kind if evaporates under the relentless onslaught of SUCK NONSENSE PHYSICS that is the chasm?
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Maybe something to do with repeated use of stone shape or prayer or something to keep it nice, else it just kind if evaporates under the relentless onslaught of SUCK NONSENSE PHYSICS that is the chasm?
What's wrong/weird about the chasm's physics, other than its supposedly infinite depth?
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Infinite depth alone is... well. It's a thing.
But even in the context of PF the chasm is a bear for anyone who'd wanna be a scientist.
It explicitly makes no sense in-setting, warping rules, altering magic, and just doing stupid and inexplicable things apparently based on nothing but its own whims, and, best as anyone can figure, it's not even sentient. The dungeon randomizes itself (rearranging everything) and alters the rules of reality with no particular rhyme or reason.
For example, magic has been known to fail. That's one of the reasons that you don't have a literal-and-figurative-ton of wizards just going *abra-ka-fly* or *ala-ka-teleport* and getting over the gap. It's been suggested (by some, though I've no idea if this is official or just random chatter on the boards) that you just kind of shift from plane to plane at times (), and go through lots of other nonsense based on your own inner weaknesses and nature.
Heck, it seems that folk haven't even been able to plumb the Akashic record to learn about it?
This is... silly to say the least!
Instead you've got things like...
- Aroden raising the entire thing by raising a rock (and getting his own free bridge outta the deal) ((and breaking the Age of Darkness, maybe?!?))
- Norgorber doing ????? and thenprofit!getting his bridge out of it
- Cayden... getting... smashed... and... uh... getting... his... bridge?
- Iomedae walks up and throws her shroud out, getting a free bridge out of it and walks across (*)
- Aroden dies and his bridge go brEAK
So... shrug. RIP physics, I guess.
Fantasy physics, real physics, doesn't matter, it's all turned into nothing at all in the vicinity of the rock.
Anyway, it just don't make no sense, is what I'm saying.
Perfect opportunity to force your Pathfinder character to play using the character stats from Monopoly is what I'm saying.
"But, Tactics, that doesn't make any sense." you might suggest.
"Yes, exactly." - some guy, probably (also me)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
* ()
Fun only vaguely-related links:
2012 rampant speculation thread
Old pulp book called Test Quest of the Starstone that Paizo republished
aaaaaaand that's it for now
(I don't know what I'm doing right now, I'm at home with two sick kids aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh)
Eaugh, uh, so my image just finally loaded... slow internet means I often don't see images, and, uh... the old pulp book link isn't, uh... it's not... not exactly what... I'd recommend.
It's a bit NSFW. Which someone had mentioned elsewhere, but as I hadn't seen it, I kind of forgot.
Sorry!
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Oh, okay. I'd always attributed all those phenomena to Aroden's doing, with the Starstone itself waiting patiently to be touched. I guess it's hard in-world to distinguish that explanation from the one where the phenomena emanate from the Starstone as you say.
Heck, as I read stuff I've been having trouble keeping straight whether "Test of the Starstone" refers to Aroden's mazes, or the mental hoops the Starstone puts you through when touched, or the whole shebang. Like, when people leave with wealth, is that because the mazes have both exits and, for reasons known only to Aroden, piles of treasure lying around? Or is it that when you touch the Starstone it may decide to leave you mortal but give you a bag of gems as a consolation prize?
"Yes?" would be my best guess, personally.
I don't particularly ascribe agency, per se, to the rock.
But I do think it alters locality around itself.
We can see it's inherent to the thing even more than just Aroden's whatever simply because a) nothing else Aroden used magic to do holds true yet the weirdness surrounding the rock does, and b) it still functions as a time-space-variance MacGuffin even when Golarion itself has vanished (see the Starfinder setting), which, just, what, you know?
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Perhaps it's both, with Aroden setting up the Cathedral but tying its magic to the Starstone's power because a demigod alone wasn't sufficient to get all those weirdities. That would explain its surviving his death intact. That Aroden set up the Cathedral is in the lore:
Ascendant Court
Shortly after raising the Isle of Kortos, Aroden used his newfound divine power to erect the Starstone Cathedral, a bewildering, ever-changing series of trapped passages and confounding chambers meant to thwart anyone who might follow in his footsteps.
And now that I reread that, my first and latest questions are answered. If the Cathedral is meant to thwart seekers of the Starstone, not to test them, then (1) the "Test" must be only what the Starstone does to you itself, (2) consolation prizes like wealth must come from the Starstone, and (3) a low-level character cannot plausibly survive the Cathedral, let alone reach the Starstone.
Looks like the 1st-level character will have to back down. Too bad, I'd gotten into the idea of coming out with wealth and drunkenly throwing a huge party, at the end of which the money is gone and they've enlisted with the Pathfinders.
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Well we have no idea what level Cayden was when he stumbled into the Cathedral so he might have been in the 5-7 range for an experienced NPC since PCs are the ones who power through serf-to-king in a handful of years.
This also made me remember the 'Child Goddess' from the old Kaer Maga book. There was an entry of a NPC cleric of said deity so perhaps a kid did pass the test.
In fact, I'm going to suggest that it requires someone who is either mythic, or at least experienced with something that would be a solid myth (lookin' at you, Norgipants) before trying it.
Evidence?
- Aroden: he raised a god-killing death rock out of the sea and ended the worst lingering catastrophe this side of Rovagug, so he wouldn't need more... but he was also the immortal last (active) Azlanti at the time who had positively influenced and adventured around the world for years.
- Norgorber: we don't know for sure, but we have some hints - there are a lot of things that infer his particular elements and it seems like he was a pretty big deal, and certainly immersed heavily in the local culture. ... possibly a culture that, instead, reflected him at the first.
- Cayden: we know Cayden was a rather famous (well, infamous) mercenary known far and wide for accepting cash and doing a job... until he found out something he didn't like and just quit and walked off. He was already considered something of a paragon and a noteworthy and worthwhile mortal, as evidenced by the potential rumors that he was personally rebuffed by Calistria (as opposed to her simply never returning his calls flirt-prayers).
- Iomedae: she was not only quite historically and significantly active, she was already revered - so much so that her acts were already known and recognized as super important, religiously.
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- Cayden: we know Cayden was a rather famous (well, infamous) mercenary known far and wide for accepting cash and doing a job... until he found out something he didn't like and just quit and walked off. He was already considered something of a paragon and a noteworthy and worthwhile mortal, as evidenced by the potential rumors that he was personally rebuffed by Calistria (as opposed to her simply never returning hiscallsflirt-prayers).
While I don't believe it's official cannon, JJ has stated that he doesn't see Cayden as being mythic before taking the test, just a fairly high level fighter (level 15+).
That's why I clarified "or" but to hopefully be clear:
>> you may need to be either mythic or have "fairly high levels"(tm) to pass <<
I'm certain you don't have to be mythic, as the Starstone itself can raise you to mythic power.
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Do we know that the "wealth" isn't just treasure looted from the remains of the fallen? Maybe it's simply what's left after a herd of Gelatinous Cubes have swept up.