Improvised Weapon Clarification?

[maouse33]

Ok. I've got a whole list of improvised weapons from various places. I've got lots of archetypes that do funky things. I've got the shikigami style tree.

So to clarify something from one of my players:
Master Tinker does not allow you to craft tools as improvised weapons. That was my ruling. And it is actually based on something COMPLETELY different.

Caster Level. An Alchemist has formulae that they make extracts with. Specifically it states that their character level acts as CASTER LEVEL for these extracts. But they don't GET a Caster Level (for craft feats, or whatever).

Likewise, everywhere I am reading improvised weapons ACT AS weapons. Which means they AREN'T. Just like Caster Level isn't Character Level for alchemy.

This seems to logically track with all the wording.

Most debates on here have stated Magic Weapon and such don't work on them, but there's never a great explanation. And that they can't be crafted as weapons, because then they're not improvised, and circular logic ensues. But I think this above logic trail is a better explanation than a circular logic debate.

Thoughts? Does this explain it well enough that you'd agree? Is there actually a FAQ on this?

[TiwazBlackhand]

In many ways, Adventurer's Armory 2 is essentially the FAQ for everything Improvised Weapon related.

[Scott Wilhelm]

maouse33 wrote:

Master Tinker does not allow you to craft tools as improvised weapons. That was my ruling.

Okay, that's your ruling.

maouse33 wrote:

Caster Level. An Alchemist has formulae that they make extracts with. Specifically it states that their character level acts as CASTER LEVEL for these extracts. But they don't GET a Caster Level (for craft feats, or whatever).

It seems Alchemist levels count as Caster levels for the Brew Potion Feat. And they can get Familiars via the Tumor Familiar Discovery. Their Alchemist level counts as a Caster level vis a vis the advancement of their Familiars. Alchemists can read Wizard Spellbooks and Scrolls that have spells that are also Alchemist Extracts. I can probably think of other things. But mostly, officially, Alchemists don't technically, have a Caster Leve.

maouse33 wrote:

Likewise, everywhere I am reading improvised weapons ACT AS weapons. Which means they AREN'T.

My reading is that they are.

It says "weapon" in the name.

You can be proficient with Improvised Weapons. What is one proficient with if not a weapon? When you attack with an Improvised Weapon, you do not Provoke Attacks of Opportunity like you would if you were Unarmed. Why not? Because you are armed? What the word that means a thing an armed person is armed with?

Weapon.

But it is fair to say that there is not Fighter Weapon Group that includes Improvised Weapons. I could easily ruling that you can't normally get a + on an Improvised Weapon

Saucy GM wrote:

It's a +2 frying pan!

You can't normally apply something to an Improvised Weapon that is for something that is "crafted to be a weapon."

But there are exceptions. Sledge hammers are specifically called out to be treated as Earthbreakers. Improvised Weapons of Monks of the Empty Hand get special treatment via their special abilities, as do Makeshift Scrapper Rogues.

Vis a vis your example of Magic Weapon, I don't see any justification for penalizing an imrpovised weapon wielder. Magic Weapon doesn't have any text like "crafted" or "intended" to be used as a weapon.

But you are the GM: rule as you see fit.