I was looking at making a fighter who punches, grapples, etc. Why would someone take the Monk dedication over the Martial Artist Dedication and vice versa. They look pretty similar. So similar that I wonder why they wasted the space making the Martial Artist at all.
Does anybody have any thoughts as to why you would take one over the other?
Monk: ki spells and flurry
Martial artist: lower level access to feats
They made martial artist because half level for feat selection is punishing, but they want to be safe with multi class feat selection to prevent things like barbarians with certain strike.
Monk: Skill, Monk's Flurry, Monk's Moves, Perfection's Path
Martial Arts. No ability score requirement. Basic Unarmed upgrade. Can get stances upgrades several levels earlier. And Mountain Quake.
Monk flurry is pretty big. A fighter could probably build around monk flurry better than a monk. You could get up to four d8 unarmed attacks per round with a stance and Agile grace with a 0/-3/-6/-6. That is better than a monk could get at 0/-4/-8/-8 with a lower weapon skill as well.
Fighter will get Legendary Unarmed attack while a monk will get Master Unarmed Attack. Fighter is a better hand to hand fighter than the monk. If you want to be a strong unarmed damage dealer, better to go Fighter Monk Archetype for Flurry with Agile Grace.
You could even build more archetypes with a fighter monk archetype since you don't need monastic weaponry to use weapons. So you could make a Greatsword or Halberd weapon user who finishes his round with flurry attacks. So two big attacks with weapon, then follow up with flurry of unarmed attack.
The fighter is a better unarmed fighter than a monk.
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A high-level Fighter is a better unarmed attacker than a Monk, yet going around unarmored w/ 2 AC lower than a Monk puts the Fighter at significant risk. It seems some APG Stances don't require being unarmored (though I have my doubts they'll survive errata).
Out of the box, Monk has the Flurry and a Stance. It takes several levels for the Fighter to catch up on a single Strike, with Flurry (and Stunning Fist which requires it) not coming into play until 10th+, vying with Agile Grace (as well as several other great Fighter feats).
The question is, could this brawler be a Monk that calls itself a fighter?
And do you plan on using armor and which type? (Plate means you could lower Dex, which would then lead to Martial Artist since Monk requires Dex.)
Would you be satisfied with doing subpar damage for much of your PC's career with the benefit of gaining grapple options?
Separately, get Combat Grab if you are a Fighter.
Also, though it's crazy, consider gauntlets. Still less damage, yet being freehand there are defensive options there while you'd still qualify for Combat Grab too. Heck, you could Double Slice with gauntlets. Even though that doesn't mesh well with Combat Grab due to MAP, it still does better damage than the unarmed Strike for many levels.
Note the brawling group has a good crit effect too, so having two attacks at a Fighter's highest bonus is pretty nice.
And I still feel obliged to repeat that these punching options do less damage, so if facing creatures where grappling (et al) aren't worthwhile, you may want a backup high die weapon.
A bastard sword, due to its flexibility re: hands, may fit well here.
If there is something you want side from style feats from monk.
If not then go martial artist
Martial Artist gets really nice unique feats, and earlier stance feats than Monk. Monk has a little more variety due to its mystical flavor, FoB as an option at 10, and a flexible version of the Lv 12 proficiency upgrade unique to class archetypes. The latter has a little more overall, but the former is more efficient (and possibly more fun, depending on how you feel about the unique feats) for people who just want to be an unarmed brawler.
Martial Artist gets really nice unique feats, and earlier stance feats than Monk. Monk has a little more variety due to its mystical flavor, FoB as an option at 10, and a flexible version of the Lv 12 proficiency upgrade unique to class archetypes. The latter has a little more overall, but the former is more efficient (and possibly more fun, depending on how you feel about the unique feats) for people who just want to be an unarmed brawler.
martial artist is -2 behind monk for style feats is what i saw.
and their archetype specific feats kinda simulate what monks already do in some ways.
Martial Artist gets really nice unique feats, and earlier stance feats than Monk. Monk has a little more variety due to its mystical flavor, FoB as an option at 10, and a flexible version of the Lv 12 proficiency upgrade unique to class archetypes. The latter has a little more overall, but the former is more efficient (and possibly more fun, depending on how you feel about the unique feats) for people who just want to be an unarmed brawler.
martial artist is -2 behind monk for style feats is what i saw.
and their archetype specific feats kinda simulate what monks already do in some ways.
Monk feats can only be taken at twice their original level, silly billy. The initial style feats and Brawling Focus are available at the same level as Basic Kata, 4, and everything afterwards is available 4 levels earlier (or at all, in the case of Mountain Quake).
Since Monks are martial artists in addition to everything else, it only makes sense that Martial Artist dips into the sorts of things they do. But because Monks do have that everything else in their power budget, Martial Artist is more efficient for people who just want to do martial arts rather than all of that other stuff. That's what I'm getting at, and more or less what you were getting at as well.