The DD dedication requires you are a kobold with the dragonscaled or spellscaled heritage, a dragon instinct barbarian, or a draconic bloodline sorcerer.
So, what's the point for a dragon instinct barbarian?
She can't use the focus spells granted by the archetype while raging, and the best of those focus spells are mirrored by better barbarian feats, like dragon's rage wings and dragon transformation, which don't have the normal focus spells limits and can be activated while raging.
So, what I am missing?
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It doesn't actually technically require any of those things.
But a Dragon barb can gain resistances to another type of dragon, scales gives them an unarmored AC and more resit.
Edit - turns out Verbal has the concentrate tag.
Extra wings/breath is always a bonus.
Flavor.
IMO, Dragon Instinct had to be included, even if the feats aren't that supportive of it. But some are, at least if trying to be a dragon.
Scent's good for most anybody.
I believe Scales of the Dragon, since it's a Status bonus, would add to the AC while transformed into a dragon (if using spells rather than the Rage ability at 16 which uses the PC's AC, which should be better via armor). Heck, that feat might be a good add for any shapeshifters.
And Disciple's Breath doesn't require casting or a Focus Point (though does require Breath of the Dragon) so works fine while raging.
That's decent draconic flavor which can be added to the Instinct's own dragon abilities (and only the prereq casts a spell).
And that spell can be used in round one before raging.
You could skip most of the archetype feats and just grab the two breath weapon feats.
Round one, cast to breathe.
Round two add the Dragon's Rage Breath, and hopefully any hordes are trimmed down a bit.
That's pretty solid AoE damage at level 8 for a martial, and you could do it most combats. (Barbs are already solid vs. individual enemies.)
Then at the highest levels, cast breath, then dragon form to breathe/Strike every 1d4 rounds as well as Dragon's Rage Breath to fill any gaps. You'd become a pretty serious dragon-themed PC at that point, which I think is what most Dragon Disciples would want out of their PC.
(Unfortunately that's 18th because of two level 16 feats, but as noted, by 8th you get 2 back-to-back breaths also).
Not sure if proficiency's in one's favor though, and if the level 16 feat says you're not casting, is it still using the casting proficiency?
The base spell says "Sorcerer" not a tradition, so would one need to be Trained as a Sorcerer to get one's level bonus?
Looks like a big oversight there. Hmm.
Also note that other Str/Con PCs can dip Barbarian and choose that instinct to qualify (if they grab two other feats too), which they could if focused a lot on this. Wouldn't recommend it until the proficiency issue gets rectified. Until then, you're right. Not much here unless DD's breath weapon works at the PC's class proficiency.
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Yeah, reminder that access is not the same as prerequisite. You can take this archetype with any character; they just treat it as uncommon.
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Yeah, reminder that access is not the same as prerequisite. You can take this archetype with any character; they just treat it as uncommon.
In my experience, if it has a tag like this with an access line, it basically means "If you don't have this you can't get it." Which is effectively what a pre-requisite is.
The only exception to this in-game is if a common option gives you an uncommon effect, which is what most focus spells granted from class abilities/feats do. But again, that's an exception, not the norm.
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Yeah, reminder that access is not the same as prerequisite. You can take this archetype with any character; they just treat it as uncommon.In my experience, if it has a tag like this with an access line, it basically means "If you don't have this you can't get it." Which is effectively what a pre-requisite is.
The only exception to this in-game is if a common option gives you an uncommon effect, which is what most focus spells granted from class abilities/feats do. But again, that's an exception, not the norm.
Your experience is inconsistent with the intent of the rarity system. "Uncommon" means "not immediately available without question". If that's how your table wants to run it, so be it. You do you.
PFS is an entirely different story and they have their own "house rules".
Yeah an uncommon option is literally just something you should talk to your GM about. It is really no different than clarifying if you can use material outside of Core, like say, the rest of the Advanced Player's Guide.
Sure, some GMs may so no, but frankly the assumption is that you'll normally work out a way for a character to gain access to an uncommon option in the story unless you have a compelling reason not to.
Edit: I mean, if you treat access as a prerequisite, then you might as well say all uncommon options without an access entry are non-existent.
Doing it as rarity instead of flat prerequisites encourages GMs to think about making narrative access to the Archetype for their campaign. It is something I would consider if I was running Age of Ashes and the PCs went out of their way with down time to study/emulate dragons, for example.
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PFS is an entirely different story and they have their own "house rules".
For instance, one of the GenCon charity prizes was a unique background that grants access to Dragon Disciple for any character.
For a home game, talk to your GM about a specific background option or side quest to earn access to the archetype.
Yeah an uncommon option is literally just something you should talk to your GM about. It is really no different than clarifying if you can use material outside of Core, like say, the rest of the Advanced Player's Guide.
Sure, some GMs may so no, but frankly the assumption is that you'll normally work out a way for a character to gain access to an uncommon option in the story unless you have a compelling reason not to.
Edit: I mean, if you treat access as a prerequisite, then you might as well say all uncommon options without an access entry are non-existent.
I've seen that argument made here before
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I've seen that argument made here beforeYeah an uncommon option is literally just something you should talk to your GM about. It is really no different than clarifying if you can use material outside of Core, like say, the rest of the Advanced Player's Guide.
Sure, some GMs may so no, but frankly the assumption is that you'll normally work out a way for a character to gain access to an uncommon option in the story unless you have a compelling reason not to.
Edit: I mean, if you treat access as a prerequisite, then you might as well say all uncommon options without an access entry are non-existent.
Yeah, and it was a bad argument then, as well. Uncommon options exist to be granted. All the APs so far do.
Just to clarify something, what this about not being able to cast while raging? Doesn't that only apply to spells and actions with the concentrate trait?
Cast a Spell doesn't have the concentrate trait.
Edit: Nevermind, I see the verbal trait adds the Concentrate trait now.
Just to clarify something, what this about not being able to cast while raging? Doesn't that only apply to spells and actions with the concentrate trait?
Cast a Spell doesn't have the concentrate trait.
The Verbal component, the most common one, has a Concentrate tag. So many assume, somewhat safely, that their spells all do. Special exceptions, like Lay On Hands, are worth noting for Barbarians interested in casting while Raging (because Moment of Clarity is typically a poor action/feat choice).
The Verbal component, the most common one, has a Concentrate tag. So many assume, somewhat safely, that their spells all do. Special exceptions, like Lay On Hands, are worth noting for Barbarians interested in casting while Raging (because Moment of Clarity is typically a poor action/feat choice).Just to clarify something, what this about not being able to cast while raging? Doesn't that only apply to spells and actions with the concentrate trait?
Cast a Spell doesn't have the concentrate trait.
Yeah I see that now.