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I decided not to change the Incapacitation rules at this point in time. My feeling is there are a sufficient number of spells providing a useful benefit that don't have the incapacitate trait. Also now that casters will play to lvl 20, they will reach a point where they can blast off a high level Incapacitate spell on up to lvl 20 creatures like a balor and maybe take them out completely. So the power PC casters eventually wield is quite substantial.
So here they are:
Spellcasting House Rules
Bard, Cleric, Druid, Oracle, Sorcerer, Witch, Wizard
Weapon Specialization: You’ve learned how to inflict greater injuries with the weapons you know best. You deal an additional 2 damage with weapons, unarmed attacks, and cantrips, focus spells, or spells cast using slots with the attack trait that require an attack roll to hit in which you are an expert. This damage increases to 3 if you’re a master, and 4 if you’re legendary.
Spellcasting
Note: These rules replace the rules for casting, but do not alter any additional rules such as spellbooks, special focuses, or the like.
Spell Slots (All casting classes)
Your caster table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. For example, if you know the 1st-level spell heal and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast heal using either slot.
Repertoire Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher (Bard, Sorcerer, Oracle)
You know number of 1st level spells from your spell list equal to the number of slots you can cast of your choice from the appropriate spell list. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the table. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. Additionally, when you gain a level in your class, you can choose one of your known spells and replace it with another spell from the appropriate spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Preparing and Casting Spells (Druid, Cleric, Witch, Wizard)
Your prepared caster spell table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of prepared spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the appropriate spell list. When you do so, choose a number of spells equal to your Spellcasting modifier + your class level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For example, if you are a 3rd-level caster, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Spellcasting Ability modifier of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination. If you prepare the 1st-level spell heal, you can cast it using a 1st-level or 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells. You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of spells requires time spent in prayer or meditation: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Sorcerer
Class Features
Level 1: Sorcerer Feat: Sorcerer’s gain a 1st level class feat.
Wizard
Arcane Thesis: During your studies to become a full-fledged wizard, you produced a thesis of unique magical research on one of a variety of topics. You gain a special benefit depending on the topic of your thesis research. The arcane thesis topics presented in this book are below; your specific thesis probably has a much longer and more technical title like “On the Methods of Spell Interpolation and the Genesis of a New Understanding of the Building Blocks of Magic.”
You gain the Spell Substitution Arcane Thesis for free and can choose one additional Arcane Thesis.
Arcane Focus Spells
Protective Ward Focus 1 Uncommon Abjuration Wizard
Source Core Rulebook pg. 407
Cast Single Action somatic
Range: 60 feet Targets: 1 creature
Duration sustained up to 1 minute
You place a shimmering aura of protective magic around a target. The target gains a +1 status bonus to AC and damage resistance to magical attacks equal to half the spell level. Each time you Sustain the Spell, you maintain the ward around the creature.
Heightened (+2): Increase the number of targets by 1.
Augment Summoning Focus 1 Uncommon Conjuration Wizard
Source Core Rulebook pg. 406
Cast Free Action verbal
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 creature you summoned
You augment the abilities of a summoned creature. The target gains a +1 status bonus to all checks (this also applies to the creature's DCs, including its AC and damage) for the duration of its summoning, up to 1 minute.
Heightened (+4): Increase the status bonus by +1.
Diviner's Sight Focus 1 Uncommon Concentrate Divination Fortune Wizard
Source Core Rulebook pg. 406
Cast Reaction verbal
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 willing living creature
Duration the triggering saving throw or skill check.
You glimpse into the target's future. Roll a d20; when the target attempts a non-secret saving throw or skill check, it can use the number you rolled instead of rolling, and the spell ends. Casting it again ends any active diviner's sight you have cast, as well as any active diviner's sight on the target.
Heightened (+4): Roll an additional d20 as your glimpse into the future allows you to better assess how best to influence events.
Force Bolt Focus 1 Uncommon Evocation Force Wizard
Source Core Rulebook pg. 407
Cast Single Action somatic
Range 120 feet; Targets 1 creature or object
You fire an unerring dart of force from your fingertips. It automatically hits and deals 1d6+1 force damage to the target.
Heightened (+2) The damage increases by 1d6+1.
Call of the Grave Focus 1 Uncommon Arcane Attack Necromancy Wizard
Source Core Rulebook pg. 406
Cast One Action somatic
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 living creature
You fire a ray of sickening energy. Make a spell attack roll.
Critical Success The target becomes sickened 2 and slowed 1 as long as it's sickened.
Success The target becomes sickened 1.
Failure The target is unaffected.
Heightened (+2): 1d4 negative damage. Double damage on critical.
Physical Boost Focus 1 Uncommon Transmutation Wizard
Source Core Rulebook pg. 407
Cast Single Action verbal
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 living creature
Duration until the end of the target's next turn
You temporarily improve the target's physique. The target gains a +2 status bonus to the next Acrobatics check, Athletics check, Fortitude save, or Reflex save it attempts.
Heightened (+4): Increase the bonus by +1.
Cantrips
Acid Splash: Increase damage do d8 including heightened dice damage. Add the splash trait.
Chill Touch, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, Divine Lance: Increase damage and heightened non-persistent damage to d6.
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So...
You just took 5e's spellcasting and called it a day?
Exactly. Worked well in 5E. I much preferred the way 5E handled casting. Few slots, but more dynamic. If PF2 is going to have fewer slots, then it might as well be dynamic too.
I adapted specialization as well.
And made the wizard focus powers better.
Threw the sorcerer a bone due to the adjustment.
See, in 5e, the Wizard is the only caster worth a damn, because WOTC thought they knew better than the classic Vancian Casting that's always worked well. And you wind up Sorcs that are garbagio, Warlocks who're OP as f#%!, and Wizards that are just plain the best casters in the game.
Why would you want to subject your table to that clusterfudge of imbalance? For the first time in forever, casters are balanced.
When did wizards become the best caster in 5E? Did they add something to them? I played a gnome wizard to 16th level in 5E in a game with feats and multiclassing and I was nowhere near to the most OP class.
The bard was the best support caster.
Warlock was the best single class damage caster.
Sorlock was the best overall damage caster.
Archer Sharpshooter was the best damage dealer.
GWF paladin multiclass was highest melee damage dealer.
When did this change with the wizard take place? Did they release some spells that are crazy powerful? I knew Shapechange was good and some of the summons like Pixies, but when did the wizard become this powerhouse?
Suffice it to say I still don't see that happening in PF2. The spells themselves are too weak for that to happen. Have you read PF2 spells? They don't have the ability to turn you into a powerhouse even with dynamic casting.
Shapechange spells are built to be far weaker than real martials.
Summons spells are super weak and don't much allow multiples.
Direct damage, illusions, and some mental effect spells can be really good.
I've run the numbers over multiple campaigns. And barring an ideal round of AoE damage, wizards are pulling up the rear in damage and overall group effect. I'm hoping dynamic casting substantially improves their options and closes the substantial damage and group contribution gap between wizards and other classes.
Thank you Deriven Firelion, this is exactly what I was looking for. I'm attempting to get my group to try pathfinder 2e. We play a lot of games but usually fall back to d&d 5e. And due to the asinine spell prep rules pathfinder was going be the first game my group has ever said no to playing. But if I bring these house rules I might get them to give it a try.
See, in 5e, the Wizard is the only caster worth a damn, because WOTC thought they knew better than the classic Vancian Casting that's always worked well. And you wind up Sorcs that are garbagio, Warlocks who're OP as f#%!, and Wizards that are just plain the best casters in the game.
Why would you want to subject your table to that clusterfudge of imbalance? For the first time in forever, casters are balanced.
Sorry but this is an obvious opinion of someone who hasn't played much 5e. Hell the divine soul is one of the best healers in the game. their metamagic twinned spell allows them to be the only class to have 2 of the most powerful concentration spells going at the same time. Don't get me started on the storm sorcerer. and just giving a sorcerer 6 levels of paladin makes it hands down the most powerful thing in the game. The trick was to specialize a sorcerer can cast any spell more effectively and more creatively then the wizard. the wizard can cast more spells total.
So I'm curious, with the changes you make to prepared casting, why don't you just eliminate the sorcerer altogether? The wizard and sorcerer now both have the same number of spell slots, both cast the same way with the spells they have available, but the wizard can change its entire set of prepared spells every day and individual ones every 10 minutes, while the sorcerer can still only change one spell each time it levels up (or goes through retraining at the GMs allowance). The advantage to wizards just seems so massive that I don't see a need for the sorcerer under this system.
I kind of agree with Bluescale, that you threw the sorcerer a bone, since you took away their thing. But note, the bone you gave them, is one available to universalist wizards. (a class feat at level 1)
Does Blood Magic really make up for complete flexibility with spell selection? I'd be inclined to generally guess the answer would be no.
Another question. What do you do with Cantrips? Do those have to be prepared by prepared casters, or are Cantrips counted in the list of spell names you can prepare?
Cantrips are sometimes if I recall correctly, get referred to as having Cantrip slots, they hold a spell, but the slot doesn't get consumed by casting the spell.
So for instance, I really saw a sort of strong fault with going from 2 spell slots at first level, meaning 2 spells to choose from, to having spontaneous choice at 1 level of 5 spells for the day. (since you can expect wizards to have an 18 INT for instance) That seems like a giant boost, especially if they also get to choose 5 cantrips daily.
Now on the other hand, if at first level, you get to prepare 5 spells, of which they have to select cantrips (no more than 5, without some form of cantrip expansion feat) from that list. That means a prepared caster can choose to up their selection of first level spells, but only at the cost of some of their cantrip selection. Then perhaps having the sorcerer having a set list of cantrips, as before, but always having them, and having the selection of number of spells match the number of leveled slots for the sorcerer match the slots, but go ahead and make them stick to having to allocate spells at specific levels for casting, unless it is a signature spell. This would mean spontaneous casters wouldn't get a boost in spell selection by attribute though.
Then Wizards/Prepared casters have more wide range of options for long term flexibility, but perhaps fewer individual choices at a particular moment. But Spontaneous casters such as Sorcerers technically have more selection in general, but it doesn't change day to day, making long term scope more limited. Individual use of specific spells might be more limited than a wizard who chose to focus on a spell a particular day, but that of course eats up some of the wizards daily focus.
The addition of the spell casting modifier to the spell selection however becomes potentially problematic when you step over to the Multi-class archetypes though. If you add it to the multiclass prepared casters spell selection, then even if you expect it won't be a +4 to start, it will be at least a +2, if not +3, and will likely make spell selection seem even more atrocious for the spontaneous multiclass casters.
On the other hand if spell selection for multiclass archtypes was 2 for the dedication (always spent on cantrips at start) and then with Basic Spellcasting access, it become 1 + 1/2 their level (max 5 perhaps with basic, something higher for master and expert). Potentially gaining the Breadth feat for the archetype in addition to the spell slots, boosts their selection of spells by one.
To be honest, adding the spellcasting modifier to spells able to be prepared creates a slide in the process, that it might simply be better served to just have be say a static 4. So # spells 'selected' would be 4+ level, while for multi-class archetypes, perhaps 2+ 1/2 level.
By scaling the ability such that it isn't wholesale giving away better than spontaneous than spontaneous casters had it to begin with, and trying to make it be a give/take, you can actually potentially leave the ability to have Vancian prepared casters who are willing to be more set in their castings used. It would just make the neo-vancian slightly spontaneous casters have options, but at a price.
I could imagine that might even be something we might see the first class archetypes come out with. Caster archetypes, which would change how the spontaneous or prepared mechanics work for them a slight bit, but ideally not invalidating existing mechanics as a reasonable choice, afterwards.
So I'm curious, with the changes you make to prepared casting, why don't you just eliminate the sorcerer altogether? The wizard and sorcerer now both have the same number of spell slots, both cast the same way with the spells they have available, but the wizard can change its entire set of prepared spells every day and individual ones every 10 minutes, while the sorcerer can still only change one spell each time it levels up (or goes through retraining at the GMs allowance). The advantage to wizards just seems so massive that I don't see a need for the sorcerer under this system.
The sorcerer still has a lot of cool build elements. I don't think anyone was playing sorcerers for spontaneous casting with signature spells. Signature spells are pretty weak overall.
The sorcerer still allows a lot of cool build options with different spell lists, cool focus spells, and pretty good feats. I think the sorcerer is cooler than the wizard even with this type of casting.
I've found you rarely need to change out spells. You need to pick a good selection of variable spells and you're solid.
If I were to get rid of any class, I'd get rid of the sorcerer. I'd just have sorcerers with strange, different magical traditions and abilities that make magic seem very mysterious and variable. I don't want to get rid of the wizard because some people like that concept.
The sorcerer is more fun to build. Why would I get rid of a class that has so much variation?
I kind of agree with Bluescale, that you threw the sorcerer a bone, since you took away their thing. But note, the bone you gave them, is one available to universalist wizards. (a class feat at level 1)
Does Blood Magic really make up for complete flexibility with spell selection? I'd be inclined to generally guess the answer would be no.
Another question. What do you do with Cantrips? Do those have to be prepared by prepared casters, or are Cantrips counted in the list of spell names you can prepare?
Cantrips are sometimes if I recall correctly, get referred to as having Cantrip slots, they hold a spell, but the slot doesn't get consumed by casting the spell.
So for instance, I really saw a sort of strong fault with going from 2 spell slots at first level, meaning 2 spells to choose from, to having spontaneous choice at 1 level of 5 spells for the day. (since you can expect wizards to have an 18 INT for instance) That seems like a giant boost, especially if they also get to choose 5 cantrips daily.
Now on the other hand, if at first level, you get to prepare 5 spells, of which they have to select cantrips (no more than 5, without some form of cantrip expansion feat) from that list. That means a prepared caster can choose to up their selection of first level spells, but only at the cost of some of their cantrip selection. Then perhaps having the sorcerer having a set list of cantrips, as before, but always having them, and having the selection of number of spells match the number of leveled slots for the sorcerer match the slots, but go ahead and make them stick to having to allocate spells at specific levels for casting, unless it is a signature spell. This would mean spontaneous casters wouldn't get a boost in spell selection by attribute though.
Then Wizards/Prepared casters have more wide range of options for long term flexibility, but perhaps fewer individual choices at a particular moment. But Spontaneous casters such as Sorcerers technically have more selection in general,...
Cantrips have not changed for any class. It's pretty simple. I ported over 5Es system and modified it to PF2 a little bit in terms of number of spells and such.
It's working well. Players are having more fun as casters. They are able to use their high value slots as needed rather than hoping a situation comes up where they can use a high level spell slot.
It's working exactly as I imagined it. Exactly how it did in 5E. It is making the game more dynamic and fun for casters.
So I'm curious, with the changes you make to prepared casting, why don't you just eliminate the sorcerer altogether? The wizard and sorcerer now both have the same number of spell slots, both cast the same way with the spells they have available, but the wizard can change its entire set of prepared spells every day and individual ones every 10 minutes, while the sorcerer can still only change one spell each time it levels up (or goes through retraining at the GMs allowance). The advantage to wizards just seems so massive that I don't see a need for the sorcerer under this system.The sorcerer still has a lot of cool build elements. I don't think anyone was playing sorcerers for spontaneous casting with signature spells. Signature spells are pretty weak overall.
The sorcerer still allows a lot of cool build options with different spell lists, cool focus spells, and pretty good feats. I think the sorcerer is cooler than the wizard even with this type of casting.
Sorcerer focus spells tend to be hit or miss. In one campaign (which is still technically ongoing, but it's been so long since we played that it's probably dead), my undead bloodline sorcerer never once used his level 1 focus spell.
I also place more importance on signature spells, as in my new campaign, I already planned out paying a 2-feat feat tax ("bard dedication" and 'basic muse's whispers") just to get "versatile signature" for my sorcerer at level 8.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I'm curious, with the changes you make to prepared casting, why don't you just eliminate the sorcerer altogether? The wizard and sorcerer now both have the same number of spell slots, both cast the same way with the spells they have available, but the wizard can change its entire set of prepared spells every day and individual ones every 10 minutes, while the sorcerer can still only change one spell each time it levels up (or goes through retraining at the GMs allowance). The advantage to wizards just seems so massive that I don't see a need for the sorcerer under this system.The sorcerer still has a lot of cool build elements. I don't think anyone was playing sorcerers for spontaneous casting with signature spells. Signature spells are pretty weak overall.
The sorcerer still allows a lot of cool build options with different spell lists, cool focus spells, and pretty good feats. I think the sorcerer is cooler than the wizard even with this type of casting.
Sorcerer focus spells tend to be hit or miss. In one campaign (which is still technically ongoing, but it's been so long since we played that it's probably dead), my undead bloodline sorcerer never once used his level 1 focus spell.
I also place more importance on signature spells, as in my new campaign, I already planned out paying a 2-feat feat tax ("bard dedication" and 'basic muse's whispers") just to get "versatile signature" for my sorcerer at level 8.
1st level undead focus spell no good. But that 3rd level focus spell is great.
If you want to play the game in a way that makes you spend a feat tax to use your best spells at the best time in the game, then have at it. I think Signature Spells is a poor feature. I prefer 5E preparation and heightening. I think it makes the game far more fun for casters allowing them to use their spells at the best times as needed. It doesn't appear to have done anything to upset the balance of the game, so I'm going to keep on going.
If you are constrained by the a GM wanting to stick by the rules, then work up your signature spells because you don't have a choice. As far as signature spells making the sorcerer class special, that's now how I see it. The sorcerer class is good because it allows a lot of different, interesting builds for magic users. Their focus spells are much better than wizard focus spells as far as finding optimal uses for them.