If I have Lead the Pack feats (which basically allows me to command two animals, each with one action), and use companion's cry (which cost 2 actions to grant my animal companion 3 actions) Can I command one of my animal companions to take 2 actions and the other one to take 1 action?
Man, this one is a complicated one.
The relevant part of Lead the Pack states:
"When you Command an Animal, either choose one of the companions to take 2 actions, as normal, or else both companions can take 1 action to Stride or Strike."
And Companion's Cry states:
"You can urge your companion to do its utmost. You can spend 2 actions to Command an Animal instead of 1 when commanding your animal companion. If you do, your animal companion uses an additional action."
My gut tells me they'd work fine in tandem: Either one of your animal companions gets 3 Actions, or one gets 2 and the other 1.
But while I'm certain giving one 3 actions is fine, I'm not sure the second case is RAW. Mostly because Lead the Pack limits your companions to Stride or Strike when you give them both actions, and I'm not sure how the extra action would apply. Would it inherit the limitation or not?
Quote: You can have up to two animal companions active at once.
However, when you do, it’s slightly more difficult to Command
them. If you don’t Command either of your companions, one
of the two (your choice) can still use 1 action on your turn
to Stride or Strike, as per Mature Beastmaster Companion,
but not both. When you Command an Animal, either choose
one of the companions to take 2 actions, as normal, or else
both companions can take 1 action to Stride or Strike.
Either way, you can’t Command an Animal to make either
companion act again until your next turn.
In short, unlike normal ranger (or anyone else who use animal companion), when you have two companion, you can use Command Animal just once per turn.
You can chose not to command them at all, in which case one companion still will be able to use single action. You can use single command to make one animal take 2 action, or same single command to make two of them take single action.
In both cases, as long as you have both companions active - you can't use command action again during that turn. (you still can use remaining actions normally though).
And yes, you can use Companion's Cry to make one companion take extra action, but you still won't be able to use Command Animal again in this turn.
TheFinish wrote: Mostly because Lead the Pack limits your companions to Stride or Strike when you give them both actions, and I'm not sure how the extra action would apply. Would it inherit the limitation or not? Yeah, been planning to build my pfs character with this build. My plan was to command 1 animal as normal (stride and attack, as per Lead the Pack) and the other animal, a cat, (which uses companion's cry), to use its advanced maneuver to stride and attack in a single action.
Then again, after reading the phrase carefully, i don't think this is the case.
Abyssalwyrm wrote: Quote:
And yes, you can use Companion's Cry to make one companion take extra action, but you still won't be able to use Command Animal again in this turn. So, based on what you said, if i command two different animals with companion's cry and lead the pack, each one of them can only take either stride or strike, then there's one last action from companion's cry that can be used for any action, like support or advanced maneuver?
Sorry if this is confusing, English not my main but..
Is this the right interpretation?
Example:
Animal A - Stride (1 action from lead the pack)
Animal B - Stride (1 action from lead the pack)
Animal B - Support (1 action from companion's cry)
And this one isn't allowed?
Example 2:
Animal A - Stride and Strike (2 action)
Animal B - Support (1 action from companion's cry.)
The way it's phrased, if you have Lead the Pack and two companions active, you cannot use Command Animal with either companion more than once per turn, regardless of what other feats you have that modify how Command Animal works. Whereas normally you could use all three of your actions to have a single companion take six total actions, if you have two companions active, they're just too hard to wrangle. (For what it's worth, I think this is silly.)
The specific interaction with Companion's Cry does have some ambiguity, though. Lead the Pack says nothing about Companion's Cry, and both feats just talk about you spending actions to Command Animal. Worse, Lead the Pack assumes how many actions you use and how many your companion gets: "either choose one of the companions to take two actions, as normal...". Well, what if you are able to use Command Animal with two actions? Lead the Pack is silent on that, and again, the assumption is that you use 1 action to Command Animal. So, the most restrictive reading as I see it would be:
• Don't Command: One companion gets 1 action to stride or strike.
• Command with one action (Lead the Pack, case A): One companion gets two actions, "as normal".
• Command with one action (Lead the Pack, case B): Each companion can take 1 action to either stride or strike.
• Command with two actions (Companion's Cry): One companion gets "an additional action"; that is, 3 actions. Since you are using 2 actions to Command Animal and your animal is not getting 2 actions "as normal", Lead the Pack cannot apply.
Lead the Pack just lets you split the usual 2 companion's actions across 2 companions. It doesn't, and can't, compound with Companion's Cry, because Lead the Pack says nothing about using 2 of your actions to Command Animal.
A more generous reading will instead focus on what's normal, and since when you use Companion's Cry, what's normal is that your companion gets an additional action, so you could argue that it allows for these cases:
• Command with two actions (Companion's Cry + Lead the Pack, case A): One companion gets "an additional action"; that is, three actions. Oh look, this is the same thing as just using Companion's Cry.
• Command with two actions (Companion's Cry + Lead the Pack, case B): One companion gets "an additional action", that is, two actions, one of which must be stride or strike, and the other gets 1 action to either stride or strike.
Note that Companion's Cry specifically says "your animal companion", singular, and again, Lead the Pack doesn't make any mention of Companion's Cry to modify that, so I wouldn't expect that both of your animal companions get an additional action each. That would be the most generous possible interpretation of how these two feats interact, though. My strong suspicion is that the most restrictive interpretation is what was intended.
On a side note, I'll point out that, again by strictest possible reading, companions gained via Beastmaster would not gain your hunter's edge benefits the way your companion from Ranger's Animal Companion class feat does. Similarly, you might be able to use Companoin's Cry with your Ranger class animal companion but not your Beastmaster companion. (I'd be inclined to disagree with both, but I figured I would point the matter out as a problem in the phrasing of the rules.)
This dedication was clearly designed for Rangers, so I'm kind of surprised they completely overlooked how these two feats might interact. Until this gets an official ruling, I suppose the interpretation will be up to your GM.
(I tried using the list formatting codes by they didn't work.)
FYI you can never use command an animal more than once per turn as a ranger or else companion's cry makes no sense. Why take a feat that enables me to spend 2 actions for 3 AC actions when I can already spend 2 actions for 4 AC actions?
Also I think there is definitely some interaction here because both feats modify Command an Animal directly. They don't need to reference each other. Lead the pack says "when you use Command an Animal, either...". Companion's cry says "you can use 2 actions instead of one when you Command an Animal..."
I think if you choose to spend two actions when you use Command an Animal, "your animal companion uses an additional action". It doesn't have to specify how many companions you have. Choose one of your companions. It gets an additional action. You are still trading one action for one action, and you are still spending 2 actions for 3, just like Companion's Cry normally functions.
theservantsllcleanitup wrote: FYI you can never use command an animal more than once per turn as a ranger or else companion's cry makes no sense. Why take a feat that enables me to spend 2 actions for 3 AC actions when I can already spend 2 actions for 4 AC actions?
Also I think there is definitely some interaction here because both feats modify Command an Animal directly. They don't need to reference each other. Lead the pack says "when you use Command an Animal, either...". Companion's cry says "you can use 2 actions instead of one when you Command an Animal..."
I think if you choose to spend two actions when you use Command an Animal, "your animal companion uses an additional action". It doesn't have to specify how many companions you have. Choose one of your companions. It gets an additional action. You are still trading one action for one action, and you are still spending 2 actions for 3, just like Companion's Cry normally functions.
That's not really true. There's no limit on how many times you can take the Command an Animal action before Lead of the Pack, it just doesn't do anything after the first one because the Minion trait limits the companion to 2 actions per round (with a feat like Companions Cry explicitly letting you violate that).
Lead the Pack explicitly deals with this scenario once two companions are on the board. The express intent seems to be that you can't get more than 4 actions in a round.
With lead the pack active, and two companions:
* Option 1: If you don't Command either of your companions, one of the two (your choice) can still use 1 action on your turn to Stride or Strike, as per Mature Beastmaster Companion, but not both.
* Option 2: When you Command an Animal, either choose one of the companions to take 2 actions, as normal, or else both companions can take 1 action to Stride or Strike.
The intent here is that your command still gives 2 actions, either on one companion or spread in a limited fashion across both
* Option 2a: When you use Lead the Pack to command one create as normal for two actions, you can trigger Companion's Cry letting you spend a second action for a third action for your companion. Companion's Cry doesn't work for "both companions can take 1 action to Stride or Strike" because that is a special specific outcome from a regular Command an Animal.
The result is pretty clearly meant to limit the crazy action creep:
* Option 1 nets you a fourth action on your turn, as a free action from one companion.
* Option 2 nets you a fourth action on your turn, either as a trade of one of your actions for 2 from one companion, or one from each.
* Option 2A nets you a fourth action on your turn, as a trade of two of your actions from 3 from a single companion.
You don't use Lead the Pack, and it's never active. It, like Companion's Cry, just provides an additional stipulation to how you can use Command an Animal. You are still using the Command an Animal action/activity, which is why Companion's Cry works with it. The two feats don't conflict.
You are correct about the minion trait, I was misremembering what actually provided the limitation to Command an Animal. Crucially, this combination does NOT required you to use Command an Animal a second time. It increases the cost of the single Command and provides a benefit.
But most importantly, using Companion's Cry with Lead the Pack still follows the same math: It nets you a fourth action on your turn. One from you, and three from your pets. It doesn't get you a fifth action, there is no "crazy action creep", and three of those actions are use-limited by Lead the Pack to Strides or Strikes. Seems pretty fair to me, considering the number of feats you need to take to make this work (which is 4, to be clear. 2 for your two companions, Lead the Pack, and Companion's Cry) and that its minimum level is 16.
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