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Can a Wizard deduce when someone using the Occultism Spell list casts a spell that she knows?
For example a Bard casts Mage Hand (from the Occultism spell list) can a Wizard with Mage Hand on her spell list (Arcane) determine that's what's being cast?
Is that automatic? Is it an Occultism Lore check?
Bards use magic in a far different way than Wizards, so even if the result is the same is the process for getting there the same or different? THe wizard would have memorized the gestures and words to bring the spell forth while the bard knows how to bring it out by weaving a magical melody..
Basic Rules:
Sometimes you need to identify a spell, especially if its effects are not obvious right away. If you notice a spell being cast, and you have prepared that spell or have it in your repertoire, you automatically know what the spell is, including the level to which it is heightened.
If you want to identify a spell but don’t have it prepared or in your repertoire, you must spend an action on your turn to attempt to identify it using Recall Knowledge. You typically notice a spell being cast by seeing its visual manifestations or hearing its verbal casting components. Identifying long-lasting spells that are already in place requires using Identify Magic instead of Recall Knowledge because you don’t have the advantage of watching the spell being cast.
Identify Magic
Using the skill related to the appropriate tradition, as explained in Magical Traditions and Skills on page 238, you can attempt to identify a magical item, location, or ongoing effect. In many cases, you can use a skill to attempt to Identify Magic of a tradition other than your own at a higher DC. The GM determines whether you can do this and what the DC is.
Tradition doesn't matter if the spell is Prepared or in Repertoire, recognition being automatic. (rules are silent re: Innate)
Spending an action try to Recall Knowledge would use the Skill associated to the caster of the spell, i.e. Occultism for Bard.The Skill Feat "Recognize Spell" works like Recall, but as reaction with auto-success for lower level spells (scaling by skill proficiency) and bonus to save on Crit Success.
I'm not actually sure what the point of the rule for "long-lasting spells... requires using Identify Magic instead of Recall Knowledge" is, considering those are just different uses of the same skill and I'm not aware that Identify Magic has more difficult DC. Perhaps it is Identify and Recall interface with different auxiliary mechanics, Recall POTENTIALLY being more favorable? ???
It would be a pretty reasonable houserule to allow Identify Magic's "In many cases, you can use a skill to attempt to Identify Magic of a tradition other than your own at a higher DC" rule even for immediate spell casting identification normally using Recall Knowledge (as action or reaction), using your own casting skill or whatever is higher (but at penalty). As far as I can tell though, it doesn't matter whether the spell is also on the list of this other Tradition. By RAW that is irrelevant, as is whether or not it is in your spellbook (for Wizards). Personally, it seems reasonable to only allow "alternate skill at penalty" IF the spell is also on the alternate Tradition list, but that seems 100% houseruling.
Actually that line is very weird, in that "other than your own" seems entirely uncalled for, as Identify Magic simply is a usage of a skill VS appropriate tradition effect, and whether or not you yourself have casting of any Tradition doesn't seem relevant. Now it's reasonably likely you have equal or higher skill proficiency in your own Tradition, but it's not actually certain. Just guessing, but that might be an Errata hold-over from version when your own casting Tradition skill WAS hardwired as superior? That does seem Errata material, but for now I guess it's most reasonable to read it as "you can use another higher proficiency Magic skill" (at a higher DC). It does seem like whether or not the spell is on the list of this alternate Tradition should be mechanically impactful, either required in order to make the -5 check, or having a bonus if it is present. Given the "other than your own" wording seems rather incoherent, it's fair to say the rest of the text may also have flaws, but I can't say exactly how it SHOULD work.
If the Wizard has mage hand prepared, they recognize the spell as it is being cast, no roll required.
If they don’t have it prepared, and they have the Recognize Spell skill feat, they can make an Occultism check to recognize the method of casting as a reaction.
BTW, I think worrying about Wizards and Bards using different components is marginally relevant, if at all. Nothing to say that different Wizards can't use different specific gestures or vocalizations, indeed that is practically necessary if considering a Pixie Wizard VS an Aboleth Wizard (or anything else with radically different physiology). And all Bards don't inherently replace all components with playing an instrument: they merely CAN do that, but not all Bards will even use an instrument, in which case they can use "normal" V,S,M components.
The rules actually say what is used to recognize a spell, namely "seeing its visual manifestations or hearing its verbal casting components". The first doesn't depend on nuances of V,S,M casting components at all, it's just magically emitted by the spellcasting itself. We can surmise that "manifestations" are different based on Tradition because of the different skill required (unless currently Prepped/in Repertoire, which ignores Tradition distinction), but "how the casting happens" isn't really critical there. Actually, Identify Magic applies to ongoing spells and is also Tradition/Skill correlated, telling us the direct appearance of a spell effect (not just manifestation) is Tradition specific.