Retraining and swapping feats

[HumbleGamer]

Given the specific scenario which sees:

1) A lvl 6 character

2) That character taking a lvl 4 feat at lvl 6 (

Quote:

The character would like to retrain the lvl 4 feat to take a lvl 6 feat.

How is the character supposed to proceed?

Feel free to use this

Fighter Class

lvl 2- Wizard dedication

lvl 4- Lunge

lvl 6- Wizard basic spellcasting

The character would like to maintain the spellcasting, but instead of a lvl 4 lunge would go with Reflexive Shield, which is a lvl 6 feat.

How the retrain would work then?
I ask because on the one hand would be ridiculous to forgo its spellcasting skills just to retrain it back ( but at lvl 4 instead of 6 ), while on the other hand, in terms of builds/template/respec costs, I can see some good reason to even do unreasonable stuff.

[Taja the Barbarian]

I believe you'd need to do two retrains:
Retrain Lunge into Basic Wizard Spellcasting
Retrain Basic Wizard Spellcasting into Reflexive Shield

Your GM has the final call on this and could allow a free 'reshuffle' of the feat order so you only need one retrain, but that would be a (minor) bending of the actual rules...

[Aratorin]

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

I believe you'd need to do two retrains:

Retrain Lunge into Basic Wizard Spellcasting
Retrain Basic Wizard Spellcasting into Reflexive Shield

Your GM has the final call on this and could allow a free 'reshuffle' of the feat order so you only need one retrain, but that would be a (minor) bending of the actual rules...

I think you would have to Retrain Basic Wizard Spellcasting into Reflexive Shield first, as you can't take Basic Wizard Spellcasting twice, but I agree that the end result would be that you have to Retrain twice.

Seems pretty straightforward.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Aratorin wrote:

I think you would have to Retrain Basic Wizard Spellcasting into Reflexive Shield first, as you can't take Basic Wizard Spellcasting twice, but I agree that the end result would be that you have to Retrain twice.

Seems pretty straightforward.

I don't think there is a rule about having a feat more than once, people just have no reason to do so because unless the feat specifically says it gives you a benefit when you take it again it doesn't stack in any way shape or form.

I could be remembering wrong though.

[Aratorin]

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Aratorin wrote:

I think you would have to Retrain Basic Wizard Spellcasting into Reflexive Shield first, as you can't take Basic Wizard Spellcasting twice, but I agree that the end result would be that you have to Retrain twice.

Seems pretty straightforward.

I don't think there is a rule about having a feat more than once, people just have no reason to do so because unless the feat specifically says it gives you a benefit when you take it again it doesn't stack in any way shape or form.

I could be remembering wrong though.

At the very least, you can't take a second Dedication until you have taken 2 Feats from your current Dedication.

Pg. 18 Also States:

CRB 18 wrote:

ACTION OR FEAT NAME [one-action] LEVEL

TRAITS
Prerequisites Any minimum ability scores, feats, proficiency ranks, or other prerequisites you must have before you can access this rule element are listed here. Feats also have a level prerequisite, which appears above.

Frequency This is the limit on how many times you can use the ability within a given time.

Trigger Reactions and some free actions have triggers that must be met before they can be used.

Requirements Sometimes you must have a certain item or be in a certain circumstance to use an ability. If so, it’s listed in this section.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------
This section describes the effects or benefits of a rule element. If the rule is an action, it explains what the effect is or what you must roll to determine the effect. If it’s a feat that modifies an existing action or grants a constant effect, the benefit is explained here.

Special Any special qualities of the rule are explained in this section. Usually this section appears in feats you can select more than once, explaining what happens when you do.

This heavily implies that you cannot select the same Feat more than once, unless the Feat specifically says you can.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Aratorin wrote:

At the very least, you can't take a second Dedication until you have taken 2 Feats from your current Dedication.

I am not sure the relevance?

Aratorin wrote:

Usually this section appears in feats you can select more than once, explaining what happens when you do.

It can also be read with these sections emphasised though. Don't get me wrong; I am not saying the design intention is for people to be able to take multiple feats of the same type, I am also not saying that there is any stacking unless there is the section that does say what happens.

But I am not sure I would rule RAW that you need three retraining in the case above, vs two. And even if RAI is that you cannot do that, I am pretty sure it isn't RAI that it is in place to block swapping a misplaced feat choice like the one explained above.

[Aratorin]

Nobody said 3. I agreed that it would be 2. I just said I thought it would be a different order.

[Quandary]

I don't have link handy, but Seifter did confirm here in forums that there is rules assumption that you can't take Feat more than once unless specifically allowed to, and he also extended that to Familiar Abilities (which aren't Feats).

[Taja the Barbarian]

Aratorin wrote:

Nobody said 3. I agreed that it would be 2. I just said I thought it would be a different order.

And you'd be correct: The specific retraining order is backwards in my post.