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Okay this has to be wrong but I'm just not getting it....
If one casts Invisibility and Mind Blank, does that completely foil See Invisibility and True Seeing?!??
It seems like it has to be a resounding "No!" Am I wrong?
It seems like the See Invisibility or True Seeing would negate the +40 one gets on Stealth due to Invisibility and allow for seeing the warded creature -- even though the warded creature simultaneously has Mind Blank.
Thanks!
Invisibility Purge and Glitterdust will work just fine. See Invisibility and True Seeing will not.
There are ways to deal with Invisibility that are not divination spells, they're just not as easy.
Personally I've always considered Mind Blank to be a problematic spell, and have house rules to modify how it functions.
I also rule that throwing things (powdered chalk, mud, etc) on the invisible person negates the invisibility unless they spend actions to remove it.
Okay this has to be wrong but I'm just not getting it....
If one casts Invisibility and Mind Blank, does that completely foil See Invisibility and True Seeing?!??
It seems like it has to be a resounding "No!" Am I wrong?
It seems like the See Invisibility or True Seeing would negate the +40 one gets on Stealth due to Invisibility and allow for seeing the warded creature -- even though the warded creature simultaneously has Mind Blank.
Thanks!
In the case of see invisible, mind blank EXPLICITLY defeats it, even though that seems to make no sense:
The subject is protected from all devices and spells that gather information about the target through divination magic (such as detect evil, locate creature, scry, and see invisible). This spell also grants a +8 resistance bonus on saving throws against all mind-affecting spells and effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to gain information about the target. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn't detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.
Since it works on see invisible, mind blank must be understood to protect the target and any spells affecting the target, such as illusions or polymorphs. As such, true seeing runs into the same problem.
True Seeing vs Mind Blank has been the subject of much controversy, but as far as I know the question hasn't been officially answered. I endorse the interpretation that, by RAW, Mind Blank foils True Seeing. Claxon makes a good point though:
Personally I've always considered Mind Blank to be a problematic spell, and have house rules to modify how it functions.
You're not wrong, but True Seeing is just as, if not more, problematic for illusionists as Mind blank is for diviners. In both cases I'm a fan of using caster level checks (with generous bonuses for those using these spells) to provide some balance; in my opinion these spells should be powerful tools to answer a broad range of spells, but shouldn't be an insurmountable barrier to using specific schools of magic in high level play.
Okay this has to be wrong but I'm just not getting it....
If one casts Invisibility and Mind Blank, does that completely foil See Invisibility and True Seeing?!??
It seems like it has to be a resounding "No!" Am I wrong?
It seems like the See Invisibility or True Seeing would negate the +40 one gets on Stealth due to Invisibility and allow for seeing the warded creature -- even though the warded creature simultaneously has Mind Blank.
Thanks!
Magic is strong. High Level Magic is absurd. That said as others have suggested, Invisibility Purge is the normal counter. Keep in mind, an invisible creature is only a DC 20 Perception to know that one is within 30 ft although you cannot pinpoint it. If it's moving full speed and not bothering to make stealth checks, it's not too difficult for high level creatures/PCs to make the perception check to pinpoint them since they only get a +20 at that point.
Lifesense, Blindsight, and Tremorsense are a few different options some may have access to. Wide AoE spells also do the trick.
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Invisibility Purge doesn't seem to be a realistic (high level) answer. .
The CR 19 BBEG will have the Tremorsense, Blindsense, Scent, etc., that it's suppose to have, in addition to True Seeing. But his Invisibility Purge will only extend 100 feet (give or take). It's quite easy for the Wizard to stay over 100 feet away with both Invisibility and Mind Blank. So it's just guesswork or luck to include the Wizard in the massive AoE attack.
It just seems like Mind Blank shouldn't, um. 'stack'(?) with Invisibility.
EDIT: I wonder if a targeted Dispel Magic or Gr Dispel Magic could focus just on a Mind Blank or Invisibility.
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Magic is strong. High Level Magic is absurd.
Preacher; meet choir. "Hello."
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Keep in mind... Perception ...and not bothering to make stealth checks, it's not too difficult for high level creatures/PCs to make the perception check to pinpoint.
Ah Ha!
I think that's a great answer. Those CR 18ish Wizards are far less likely to have a gross Stealth compared to the Perception of the CR 18ish BBEG, even the +20 may not do enough.
It's pretty easy to tell where someone is when a beam of fire originates from there.
Basically, what Meirril means is that you cannot "stealthily" cast a spell without significant metamagic which makes it much easier to pinpoint.
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Easy solution: a bow and a ready action of "when I see or perceive the casting of a spell I fire in that square".
[quote=FAQ) What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?
Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.
Invisibility Purge doesn't seem to be a realistic (high level) answer. .
The CR 19 BBEG will have the Tremorsense, Blindsense, Scent, etc., that it's suppose to have, in addition to True Seeing. But his Invisibility Purge will only extend 100 feet (give or take). It's quite easy for the Wizard to stay over 100 feet away with both Invisibility and Mind Blank. So it's just guesswork or luck to include the Wizard in the massive AoE attack.
It just seems like Mind Blank shouldn't, um. 'stack'(?) with Invisibility.
EDIT: I wonder if a targeted Dispel Magic or Gr Dispel Magic could focus just on a Mind Blank or Invisibility.
No it's not. It's only easy if you make it easy.
Considering putting your BBEG inside a building that restricts line of sight and line of effect.
If outside mountains and trees can do something similar.
Hell, it's a high level bad guy. Perhaps he just has a force wall pope-mobile style transport device (he can't harm anyone from inside, but no one can harm him either).
You don't have to let the players do things like that whatsoever. You get to decide the place they fight. Don't let them do things like finding the BBEG in an open field from 500 ft away.
(I) have house rules to modify how (Mind Blank) functions..
I would be very interested to see your House Rule.
I rule spells cast at a higher level than the Mind Blank (or True Seeing) out right defeat those spells (and do remember heighten is an option).
Otherwise I rule that it's a caster level check for the caster going up against those spells, with the defender (the person using Mind Blank/True Sight) getting having a DC of 11 + 1 1/3*caster level.
On average the user of Mind Blank/True Sight will win assuming close to equal caster level. A level 20 caster would have a DC of 37. While the person trying to defeat it, assuming 20th caster level, would need to roll 17 on the die for their caster level check, a 20% chance of success.
Easy solution: a bow and a ready action of "when I see or perceive the casting of a spell I fire in that square".
[quote=FAQ) What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?
Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.
There is still no official answer on how invisibility interacts with spell manifestations, and so this is still highly debatable whether a invisible caster gives away their position. (For some spells, it certainly would, like most ray spells that would have an obvious point of origin).