So here's what I can find in the rules:
1) Generally, an attack targets EAC or KAC depending on the damage it does
2) Specifically, most things that would change a weapon's damage type, such as a fusion, don't allow a weapon to target EAC. BUT this is only the case because they are *specific* exceptions to the rule.
3) One such exception is that "Even if a solarian weapon crystal’s EXTRA DAMAGE is a type of energy damage, attacks with the solar weapon still target KAC, not EAC." Emphasis mine.
4) An apocalypse crystal causes ALL damage not just extra damage) from a solarian weapon to be treated as a force effect.
5) " Force weapons deal kinetic damage but still target EAC."
So here are 2 questions:
First, would it be technically correct to say that there is no specific exception that stops the apocalypse crystal from invoking rules 1 and 5 above?
Secondly, even if one answers yes to the first question, is this such an obvious deviation from RAI that even in a Society or Con game a player should still not be allowed to take advantage of the loophole?
I do not believe an Apocalypse Crystal allows the weapon to target EAC, no.
I don't think there's a loophole to be taken advantage of, so number 2 is also no.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
No.
If the solar shield, which always changes all damage to the crystals's type always target's KAC, as confirmed by the FAQ, that's more than enough precedent to day that this solar weapon also still targets KAC.
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Very straightforward answer for this: #5 is a specific weapon property (the "Force" property) that has specific rules. These rules are that the weapon has the force descriptor and that even if it deals kinetic damage it still target's EAC. The Apocalypse crystals DO NOT have that weapon property. All they do is cause the solar weapon's damage to be treated as a force effect.
The "Force weapons deal kinetic damage but still target EAC" is a specific rule for the force weapon property, not a general rule for all force effects.
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Pantshandshake wrote: I do not believe an Apocalypse Crystal allows the weapon to target EAC, no.
I don't think there's a loophole to be taken advantage of, so number 2 is also no.
Curious about how # 2 is a no. The rule in # 1 IS an actual rule, and would presumably apply in any instance that didn't establish a specific exception. And it is supported by the fact that so many abilities that change weapon types specifically say "this does not target EAC despite..."
The existence of rule # 1 establishes rule # 2 automatically. # 1 is the general rule, #2 is just the fact that there are some cases where specific overrules general. Which makes the question "do we have a specific to overrule the general in the case of the apocalypse crystal?"
HammerJack wrote: No.
If the solar shield, which always changes all damage to the crystals's type always target's KAC, as confirmed by the FAQ, that's more than enough precedent to day that this solar weapon also still targets KAC.
I'm unfamiliar with this ruling. Was there an errata or FAQ that establishes that the shield only targets KAC?
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Yes. It's in the FAQ. That's... why I wrote "as cofirmed by the FAQ."
https://paizo.com/starfinder/faq
BastionofthePants wrote:
Curious about how # 2 is a no. The rule in # 1 IS an actual rule, and would presumably apply in any instance that didn't establish a specific exception. And it is supported by the fact that so many abilities that change weapon types specifically say "this does not target EAC despite..."
The existence of rule # 1 establishes rule # 2 automatically. # 1 is the general rule, #2 is just the fact that there are some cases where specific overrules general. Which makes the question "do we have a specific to overrule the general in the case of the apocalypse crystal?"
Ah, it sort of seems like you're conflating your "I found these rules (1-5)" with your questions. My answers were specific to your questions.
For your first question, the answer is no, as changing a weapon's damage type doesn't (to my knowledge) ever change the kind of AC it targets. ALL energy based damage types target EAC, and (again, to my knowledge) changing a weapon that natively targets KAC to any energy type does not result in it being able to target EAC.
So my answer to question 2, also a no, is based on there not being a loophole that allows you to change the the damage type on a weapon that targets KAC in order to make it target EAC.
The crystal, or fusion, or spell, or whatever power/item/ability changing the damage type would need to say "This change allows this weapon to target EAC" or something similar. Specifically, the Apocalypse crystal does not contain this wording, and generally, I do not believe anything contains this wording. So not only is there no loophole in this specific set of circumstances, but I do not believe there is a way to do what you're proposing at all. Thus, double-extra-no-loophole.
HammerJack wrote: Yes. It's in the FAQ. That's... why I wrote "as cofirmed by the FAQ."
https://paizo.com/starfinder/faq
Wow, dunno how I missed that.
Yeah, I'd say you're right. That establishes pretty solid precedent.
And thanks everyone. Now I can have a good response if this ever comes up at a table I'm GMing.
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As someone who played a solarian with apocalypse crystals; we played with it targeting KAC as normal. It was still quite good, incorporeal enemies aren't all that rare and not doing only half damage, was really sweet.
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