Hi everyone.
In the last session I DMed, a situation arose that I haven't found explained in the rules.
Basically the PCs are fighting a monster that specializes in grabbing its prey. It grabbed the bard, and the character had a very low chance of escaping before being constricted to death.
Another character, the monk, used Tiger Slash (monk feat 6), and after hitting the monster the player asked me if the push effect of this feat could help the bard. I ruled that the monk had to make an athletics check against the monster DC as if trying to escape, and if successful, the Tiger Slash would push the monster away from the bard, freeing him. If the roll fails, then the monster would be pushed, dragging the bard with it.
Fortunately, the roll was successful, the monster was pushed away, and the bard was saved :-)
So, what do you think about this ruling? is it covered somewhere in the rulebook? I could swear I read something in the CRB about this situation but I cannot find anything.
Tiger Slash Two Actions Feat 6
Monk
Source Core Rulebook pg. 161
Prerequisites Tiger Stance
Requirements You are in Tiger Stance.
You make a fierce swipe with both hands. Make a tiger claw Strike. It deals two extra weapon damage dice (three extra dice if you’re 14th level or higher), and you can push the target 5 feet away as if you had successfully Shoved them. If the attack is a critical success and deals damage, add your Strength modifier to the persistent bleed damage from your tiger claw.
Also, regarding the Grab monster ability, I have a question about how it is extended.
So basically if a monster has an attack that grabs, after you hit you spend the next action and the creature you hit is automatically grabbed until the end of the monster's next turn. No roll required.
What happens in the following rounds? reading the text of the ability, my understanding was that you spend another action to use "Grab" and the grab is automatically renewed until the end of the monster's next turn, again no roll required. However, I have seen Jason Bulmahn in some YouTube games doing an athletics roll to maintain the grab... have I been using Grab wrong?
Source Bestiary pg. 343
Requirements The monster's last action was a success with a Strike that lists Grab in its damage entry, or it has a creature grabbed using this action. Effect The monster automatically Grabs the target until the end of the monster's next turn. The creature is grabbed by whichever body part the monster attacked with, and that body part can't be used to Strike creatures until the grab is ended.
Using Grab extends the duration of the monster's Grab until the end of its next turn for all creatures grabbed by it. A grabbed creature can use the Escape action to get out of the grab, and the Grab ends for a grabbed creatures if the monster moves away from it.
Thanks!
I think that after the initial grab you do need to roll athletics to maintain the grab. You could drop the grapple and hit it again, but if the creature is flying that might not be a good option.
With regard to Tiger Slash, I think it would just push the monster (and drag the bard with him). To free the bard I think the monk needs to join the grapple and beat the monsters for control of the grapple, but I don't see rules for multiple creatures in a grapple.
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Well, Grabbed confers Immobilized.
Immobilized
You can’t use any action with the move trait. If you’re immobilized by something holding you in place and an external force would move you out of your space, the force must succeed at a check against either the DC of the effect holding you in place or the relevant defense (usually Fortitude DC) of the monster holding you in place.
I don't see any reason not to use the same check to push the creature off of the bard as to push the bard away from the creature.
As for using Athletics to maintain grab, that is only necessary when grappling with Athletics, not when using the Grab ability.
But the grabber isn't immobilized, only the grabee.
So if the monk punched his friend, that would apply. But the monk punch pushes the monsters, and moves the bard with him (I think).
But it is a reasonable blank space in the rule to use the same DC of a maneuver to try to separate them, in this case go against the attack roll the monster made to grab.
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Grab [one-action] Requirements The monster’s last action was a success with a Strike that lists Grab in its damage entry, or it has a creature grabbed using this action. Effect The monster automatically Grabs the target until the end of the monster’s next turn. The creature is grabbed by whichever body part the monster attacked with, and that body part can’t be used to Strike creatures until the grab is ended.
Using Grab extends the duration of the monster’s Grab until the end of its next turn for all creatures grabbed by it. A grabbed creature can use the Escape action to get out of the grab, and the Grab ends for a grabbed creatures if the monster moves away from it.
Pushing the Creature Moves it away from the Bard, so the Grab ends. You can't maintain a Grab while Moving, unless you have an ability that says so, like the Roc. Forced Movement is still Movement.
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But the grabber isn't immobilized, only the grabee.
So if the monk punched his friend, that would apply. But the monk punch pushes the monsters, and moves the bard with him (I think).
But it is a reasonable blank space in the rule to use the same DC of a maneuver to try to separate them, in this case go against the attack roll the monster made to grab.
I know that the immobilize is one way. But since there also no rules for the bard to be dragged along with the monster, invoking the same roll that would be needed to break the hold on the bard is the most logical rule to use, that gives the most coherent results.
Saying that pushing the bard away requires a check but that pushing the creature away automatically breaks the hold is more RAW, but gives a nonsense result, and isn't the best way to run this.
Pushing the Creature Moves it away from the Bard, so the Grab ends. You can't maintain a Grab while Moving, unless you have an ability that says so, like the Roc. Forced Movement is still Movement.Grab [one-action] Requirements The monster’s last action was a success with a Strike that lists Grab in its damage entry, or it has a creature grabbed using this action. Effect The monster automatically Grabs the target until the end of the monster’s next turn. The creature is grabbed by whichever body part the monster attacked with, and that body part can’t be used to Strike creatures until the grab is ended.
Using Grab extends the duration of the monster’s Grab until the end of its next turn for all creatures grabbed by it. A grabbed creature can use the Escape action to get out of the grab, and the Grab ends for a grabbed creatures if the monster moves away from it.
This is how I'd rule as well, the creature pushed loses the Grapple since it was moved away.
Thank you for the answers!
From now on, I'll let the push effect free grabbed creatures if it pushes the grabber away enough (the monster can have reach). The bolded part in the "Grab" description seems clear enough to me.
If the creature is specialized in grabbing (as was the case with the combat I described), I'll keep the Athletics check to see if both grabbed and grabee are pushed, or only the grabber, thus ending the grab. But in most cases, pushing the monster away will free you.
I think that after the initial grab you do need to roll athletics to maintain the grab. You could drop the grapple and hit it again, but if the creature is flying that might not be a good option.The text for the Grab ability is "Grab [one-action] Requirements The monster’s last action was a success with a Strike that lists Grab in its damage entry, or it has a creature grabbed using this action." (bolding mine.)
This tells me, that if a creature used the Grab action on the previous turn, it can use the action again to automatically maintain the grab until the end of its next turn.
Yes, that is correct.