So, here's the deal. One of my players has suggested that they want to wear a permanent Symbol of Mirroring which is only triggered by specific conditions that the Party fulfills. Pretty snazzy, right?
The way they read the combo, the permanently active symbol gives only the characters with the specific trigger (the PCs) the benefits.
Based on my reading of the Symbol of Death spell on which Symbol of Mirroring is based, I've come up with a different conclusion. You can set a specific trigger to symbol spell, but once active it effects all creatures except those attuned. In this case, attuning creatures to be immune to the spell is the opposite of the desired effect. So it sadly doesn't work.
Which of us is right? Or neither?
References to relevant FAQs, previous threads, and 1st party APs/modules are more useful than opinions, though opinions are also welcome. Symbol of Death examples are probably the most relevant we'll get.
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To make it work they need to make the symbol in an enclosed space (so that the line of effect is blocked for other creatures), enter the room, trigger it, and then leave with a single image that lasts for 1 round/level.
It needs to be inscribed on a surface on a prominent location (it is not really clear what that means, but JJJ said once that it mean a fixed location of some size, so the floor of a room, even in a ship, should do), so a lot of work to make something that requires at least 2 move action to use and can't be carried along.
Yes, Artofregicide is correct. The party can make themselves unaffected by the symbol if they want to by going through a lot of extra effort. They can't exclude it from working on anything not present when the Symbol is first cast. Once the symbol is activated it will continue working until the conditions are no longer met.
Based on my reading of the Symbol of Death spell on which Symbol of Mirroring is based, I've come up with a different conclusion. You can set a specific trigger to symbol spell, but once active it effects all creatures except those attuned. In this case, attuning creatures to be immune to the spell is the opposite of the desired effect. So it sadly doesn't work.
this is all because the circle spells have been haphazardly written. Circle of death got copied and pasted without regard to if the effect being generated is positive or not. By RAW the caster can never benefit from any of the beneficial circle spells.
Your group's interpretation makes sense and may even be what was intended by the spell. I would suggest making a house rule that allows these spells to be used in a reasonable manner. The last time that used this spell, I worked with my DM to allow my character to be affected by it. My character placed a circle of mirroring on his shield which had a cover. When combat started I would remove the cover and all creatures (friend or foe) within range would be affected by it. However, my enemies that didn't know what it was would always attempt to save against it. The DC was low enough that often this meant my allies benefited from it and my enemies didn't. But some times an enemy would end up gaining the beneficial effect because they failed their save.
I would of loved to have had some way to exclude my enemies but it just isn't possible the way the spell is written. IMO the players shouldn't have to research a different version of these spells just to make them work in a way that makes sense.
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this is all because the circle spells have been haphazardly written. Circle of death got copied and pasted without regard to if the effect being generated is positive or not. By RAW the caster can never benefit from any of the beneficial circle spells.
Symbol spells and the caster (only) is automatically attuned to the Symbol.
You also can attune any number of creatures to the symbol of death, but doing this can extend the casting time. Attuning one or two creatures takes negligible time, and attuning a small group (as many as 10 creatures) extends the casting time to 1 hour. Attuning a large group (as many as 25 creatures) takes 24 hours. Attuning larger groups takes an additional 24 hours per 25 creatures. Any creature attuned to a symbol of death cannot trigger it and is immune to its effects, even if within its radius when it is triggered. You are automatically considered attuned to your own symbols of death, and thus always ignore the effects and cannot inadvertently trigger them.
The fun part of the bolded piece is that the evil tyrant sitting on his trone can trigger the symbol to kill his enemies. It should have been "cannot inadvertently trigger it".
It is a common problem of a lot of high-level spells, they haven't been really updated to work well with the 3rd edition or Pathfinder 1.
What I'm understanding is by RAW, the caster of a Symbol of Mirroring would technically not benefit from it as they'd be attuned to it?
That seems unintended.
this is all because the circle spells
I assume you mean Symbol spells? Though this probably applies to Circle spells as well.
this is all because the circle spellsI assume you mean Symbol spells? Though this probably applies to Circle spells as well.
doh! yeah symbol spells. I probably had circle on the brain because I was playing a druid in a 5e game the other day. It explains why I couldn't find the other symbol spells that I knew existed. Looking at it again, apparently symbol of mirroring and symbol of healing are the only two with beneficial effects. I thought there was another one but I can't seem to find it. Though I suppose depending on the character/situation maybe the caster wants to be affected by a symbol of debauchery.
I assume you are directing that towards the OP? Sounds kind of aggressive if that is the case, especially considering the OP is the GM and is trying to find out if the Player's idea of how that symbol+permanency work is correct or not.Generally you set Symbols up as stand alone traps to ward an area, or you populate the area with compatible monsters.
Like you place a Symbol of Death near your phylactery and a few high cost Golems because the Golems are immune.
Likewise if you summon a squad of Devils or Demons that all have true sight giving them a banner with a Symbol of Mirroring gives their opponents no advantage.
And if you have a fortress or temple placing a permanent Symbol of Healing there helps to save spell power for emergencies.
The spells work fine as is. Instead of researching how to get them to work just for you're benefit, think of a way to mold the situation to your advantage.
Is the OP, is confused. Nobody seems super aggressive to me?
And in regards to the houserule suggestion, it's a fine suggestion for their table but I'm trying to stay reasonably close to RAW/RAI, and I don't think a permanent free mirror image for the entire party for 5k~ is either.
Though it would bring up some fun situations where the healer would have to roll against the mirror image to deliver healing spells and potentially waste them.
*le shrug*
I think I've made my ruling anyway, which is to stick to my original interpretation.