Warden Ranger Archetype and Favored Terrain


Rules Questions


The Warden Ranger Archetype does not ever replace or otherwise alter the Ranger Favored Terrain ability, but at level 1 gains the ability "Master of Terrain" which grants him his first favored terrain at 1 and a second at level 3. Does that stack with the Favored Terrain ability that he also get as a ranger at level 3? So does this mean that at level 3 this class is meant to have 3 favored terrains already, meaning more than likely a +6 in one of those terrains and +2 in the others?

This seems... Strong. Especially once I grab boots of friendly terrain and start running Horizon Walker at level 7...


RAW that appears to be so. My guess as RAI (and how I'd run it regardless) is that at 1st level the Warden gets a favored terrain instead of enemy, and that at 3rd, 8th etc gets the usual favored terrain additions for the vanilla ranger.


*rubs eyeballs*


Yeah, I have to agree : I don't believe the intent is to trade 1 favored enemy for 5 terrains. I assume you're supposed to just trade the level 1 enemy for a level 1 terrain, and gain the normal terrains afterwards (at 3 and every 5 after that).

That is, however, not what is written. Probably an editing miss?


Sorry to come back to this I'm actually still curious about it, as it might become relevant to a character of mine very soon.

What do people think ? (Less about intent than what people think works better)
How many Terrains should a lv3 Warden have ? 2 or 3 ?
Should a Warden gain double(+1) the Ranger's number of favored terrains ?


Nyerkh wrote:

Sorry to come back to this I'm actually still curious about it, as it might become relevant to a character of mine very soon.

What do people think ? (Less about intent than what people think works better)
How many Terrains should a lv3 Warden have ? 2 or 3 ?
Should a Warden gain double(+1) the Ranger's number of favored terrains ?

Two.

The Ranger normally maxes out at level 20 with four favored terrains. The Warden gets five, at 20.

The Warden's Master of Terrain ability even states that it caps at a maximum of five at level 20... which is clearly not double what the Ranger normally gets, which clearly shows that you are not getting double.

All Master of Terrain does is give you an extra favored terrain at level one. The rest of the terrains it mentions you picking up are your normally selected favored terrains at their normally selected levels.


But don't worry... with multiclassing, you can pick up plenty of favored terrains for maximum Horizon Walker abuse shenanigans. Three levels of Warden Ranger gets two, there's a Barbarian that gets you another one with a one level dip, and two levels of Gunslinger can get you another one... I'm sure there's some more if you look hard enough.

I don't know what sane GM would allow such crap to work at their table, but more power to you if you find a way to actually make use of Terrain Dominance shenanigans. Why any character needs such things is beyond me... plenty of 3/4 BAB characters get by just fine without +14/+14 to attack and damage.

I see Horizon Walker Terrain Dominance abuse and other such shenanigans as playing with the game on its easiest settings. Sure, you look cool out there stomping @$$, but it doesn't mean you're any good.


Yikes though if an optimized horizon Walker is still the heaviest hitter at your table... the huge bonuses into favored terrain is nice for checks and initiative, but it’s silly to assume that they’re not still the easiest bonuses (like favored enemy or bane) to make irrelevant in an open campaign. Unlike the classic broken 2H builds for damage, or, I don’t know, ANY CASTER. By the time a horizon walker has the insane stats, a mediocre optimized caster is still save or die. Y’all need to stop being so ardently opposed to making level 15-20 Martial’s decent just because the numbers you see at “to hit” scare you

I could literally ruin entire campaigns with relatively meta caster builds with spell perfection just because it’s *that easy* to make some spells unsaveable.


RAWmonger wrote:
The Warden Ranger Archetype does not ever replace or otherwise alter the Ranger Favored Terrain ability

That's because the archetype nomenclatur wasn't down yet. We have explicit confirmation for the APG that "archetypes were new and the “this alters” language didn’t exist yet, meaning archetypes in this book (...) never include it, even when they should by current standards." While that FAQ only talks about APG, in the original printings oc UC (and UM), the word "alters" ios not applied to archetypes at all. Now, UC has recieved two errata, but something falling through the cracks shouldn't surprise anyone.

So while the Master of Terrain ability does not outright state that it alters Favored Terrain (FT), it does in effect alter the FT class feature. The phrasing ("his first favored terrain") simply doesn't work for a stand-alone ability, as it clearly refers to something existing - and what it refers to can only be the favored terrain granted by the FT ability, which it therefore must alter! Further evidence is that the Master of Terrain ability states the maximum of favored terrains.

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